From the Comments IV; Revenge of the Nice Guy


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18 November 2006

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A good comment this time, one made by Anonymous on a recent post.

A rebuke of women who followed feminism in their youth but wish to return to the age of old now that they have reached old age, this rant deserves to be put forth here for all to see.

Women have the right to neglect and let nice hardworking men rot all alone while they are in their late teens and early 20’s while they get to squander their prime year to the thugs and exciting bad boys.

In return once men get financially stable (mid 20’s-early 30’s) we’ve got every fucking right to rebuke these western skanks for the worthless piece of shit they are. If women are in their 30’s crying that they can’t have children or can’t find a good man, that is their fucking problem not mine! They should thought about this when they were around 20 rather than in their mid 30’s. When they are 20 they could pick what ever guy they want.

However, once we all hit 30, men like me will be the ones who will run the show not them! Since they threw away their prime years at bad boys and thugs, I for one will gladly let them feel the pain I went through in my late teens and early 20’s and will glady rebuke them and let them feel what it is like being alone without any one showing them any affection.

Amen Brother.

posted by Duncan Idaho @ 6:24 PM

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At 7:33 PM, Anonymous said…

Women,

You reject us in your prime, we’ll reject you in ours.

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At 7:33 PM, nevo said…

It is a great shame I did not know all I know now about marriage and women, before getting married.
I could have saved myself so much heartbreak and misery.
Not even the children are spared, who, she managed to turn against me.
There’ll be pay back day though.

When the children grow up without their father they’ll turn into nasty hoodlooms, with no respect of civil life and even less respect for the police state that politicians are busily developing today.

NEVO

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At 8:22 PM, Anonymous said…

It gets better for men as we get older. Once a chick hits 30 it’s all downhill from there. The expiration date kicks and the odometer has rolled over at least once. When gravity starts setting in so does the anger and bitterness. They used up the few good years that they had. Stay away from women over 30, stay away from all single mothers and above all stay single.

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At 9:11 PM, Schpengle Carrot-Tripe said…

oj yes!!
Dude!
fantastic, I’ve been blithering like this for years! I’m not alone…
thank fuck! Slowly watching my idiot friends getting shafted. This is a supergb respite form the crap we have ot deal with. and, as for

“If any balaclava-clad guy had raped her, it would only be one who’d put the balaclava on backwards that night.”

hahah!.Im sure she’s got clones in my village- maybe shes from the same sperm bank?

anyway, keep up the excellent rampage, I shall return frequently!
cya mate
hahah
cya mate!

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At 10:21 PM, Brazilian Bachelor said…

Society hates us — we are seen as the problem in everything.

As no one gives a fuck about us, why should we? It’s time for men everywhere to just care about fellow men who are free from the matriarchy, and the ones who want to be saved of course. Fuck everything else. Why should we care if everything breaks apart? We’re not being benefited from it AND we are making it possible with our work and taxes that we pay.

As for women, let them reap what they sown. They wanted it sooo much. Now let them have it!

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At 10:34 PM, Anonymous said…

A-Freakin’-Men!

As a 20 year old guy, 21 in December, from the USA, I can tell you that this site has totally changed my priorities in life.

Get a good education, get a good paying job, save up my money, invest throughout my 20’s, have lot’s of fun, and avoid any and all serious relationships with western-woman till I’m at least pushing 30!

Then and only then, will I consider settling down. Highly doubtful it will be with a western-feminized woman…

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At 12:54 AM, Black Misogynist said…

Women,

You reject us in your prime, we’ll reject you in ours.

Great line there.
It isn’t even about when they hit 30. It only matters when they start losing their own looks and worth and have a harder time picking up random morons to have fun with.
It can be age 22 all the way to age 40. When they start getting fat. When they have a few kids. When they are broke. When they just decide “k I need a decent husband to pay my bills.”
When they find out you are making a decent life for yourself when they don’t have shit. That is when they will come around looking for you.

Know what mr anonymous @ 7:33pm, Im saving that quote. Thanks.

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At 1:04 AM, Anonymous said…

Every “nice guy” should read “No More Mr. Nice Guy” and check out www.nomoremrniceguy.com/forums

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At 1:06 AM, NHY said…

AMEN.

This is so gosh damned true, not just in America but in Ireland, the UK and many other places too!

I’m a 20 year male, striving for an education and a good job at the end of it and whatnot. However, seeing women snobbing people like me in favor of thugs, bad boys and whatnot is infuriating! However, that being said, who is going to get the last laugh when your 30 and try and wheel me in?

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At 2:56 AM, Anonymous said…

I share your thoughts on the situation about women and relationships – that women spurn the nice guys for the superficial excitement of a relationship with non-principled men. But I have a feeling that it is possible to meet women, and it would be good if we at least discuss where and how this might come about. From my acquaintances in school, I have seen how some of the smart guys of done this – get to know someone for a long time, maybe as a friend first for many years, before becoming involved. I think there is some possibility to buck the trend this way; a non-committed friendship that allows us men and the women to really know each other before committing to any sort of relationship. As for what some people say about not being able to get out of the friendship zone, such people are operating on the superficial level and the women who can understand farther than that, that a relationship isn’t just a feeling, are the ones to go after.

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At 4:19 AM, Anonymous said…

“I have a feeling that it is possible to meet women, and it would be good if we at least discuss where and how this might come about.”

I am assuming you are a woman in college. You are going to have to understand that once these guys get burned or rejected a few times they will give up trying to get women. I will concede that the school system has failed you women about not getting educated about the rejection process men go through during this age. During the male’s late teens or early 20’s the pain is very intense for these males. There hearts will aching and it will eat them up alive if they are not getting any intimate contact (hugging, kissing etc)from any girls.

You may have to be the one who initiates the contact. I would advise you to look at any guys who are very hard working but aren’t seen interacting with girls that much. The guys who are very hardworking are bound to succeed. If they aren’t seen with women chances are they are in intense pain and those will be the guys who will be most likely be able to give you a stable long term relationship. However, these guys are considered boring and most women will avoid them. If you do take my advice seriously keep in mind that they may need some nurturing like hugging before they may actually feel wanted.

“I think there is some possibility to buck the trend this way; a non-committed friendship that allows us men and the women to really know each other before committing to any sort of relationship.”

I wished you were right but I have to disagree that there really isn’t a possibility to buck this trend. Once men learn the divorce laws they will not want to get married.

The trend is to keep the nice guys as just friends while giving sex to the exciting bad boys in college.

I will make note that once a guy successfully graduates from college his options will expand. Thanks to globalization and the power of the internet, Super model hot women in Latin American, and Asian countries are going to want these men. These men will have incredible options once they make it through college and the last thing they are going to want are women who rejected them during their prime when they can get gorgeous women over seas. If you are still in college your time is short to find a good man, you only get your prime years once, use them wisely. Once men get in their mid-late 20’s they will stop aching for women and will count there blessings that they are a free man if a bond hasn’t been formed with a woman in his early 20’s.

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At 4:36 AM, Anonymous said…

Anon 2:56AM, you are a woman, right?

No wonder you don’t get it. Being “friends first” amounts to hours on end as a woman’s emotional tampon, playing Captain Free Therapist, while said woman is out screwing men who mistreat her.

No thank you. Go sell Crazy somewhere else. We all got sick from the last batch.

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At 4:36 AM, Anonymous said…

What about Russian women? The ideal used to be Mexican women, and I am there now, but do not marry one and take her to the States…

I have been reading that Forbes had an article which said 22% of young men are on strike against marriage. I encountered my first marriage striker in 1995, and it is growing. A woman can still get married. Just find the closest prison and wait for a really pale guy in a weird suit to come out, he will marry you. Hee, hee.

Women mistake sexual attention they receive from puberty on, for ability to find a husband. so, millions of young women announce they are going to have fun; travel; work on their career; then when they are maybe 28, get married. It is s tremendous shock when one day they say, “Hey, guys, I am ready to marry now. Um, guys? G – U – Y – S???????”

As nominal human beings, I have some sympathy for them, but it is of their own doing.

If you are retired, be aware the Philippine Islands does not have divorce!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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At 4:54 AM, Anonymous said…

I am anon: a law student and former engineer who has worked in a couple of different countries. Like I said, I share your concerns and my perspective is like your own regarding current men-women relationships. I have been played, and I seen so many guys get played because they like to get their egos stroked by women. I did what I could to awaken them to that, but it did no good.

Having been through that period of my life where I experienced societal pressure to make lots of money to entice women, and believing in the nice-guy attitude, I held off on commitment and succeeded and learned about the dynamics of male-female relationships. More secure financially, more adept socially and more knowledgeable about women and relationships, it is rather easy to engage in relationships. That said, my concerns are only heightened by the ease with which women will base their feelings on superficial criteria.

Still! We only have one life, and I do not want to preclude the option of finding a good woman. I find it useful to have this discussion, but will it only be about the negative aspects? Is there a solution? Should we even look? Or do we close ourselves off from an opportunity for a meaningful relationship because of too much fear and stroking of our own egos?

I have had good relationships, but obviously I am not married, and if I decide to get married, I want to find out how to find the right woman.

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At 5:00 AM, Anonymous said…

Hi Duncan

It’s great honor for me to help contribute to your outstanding blog. I will be turning 24 next month. Us men in our early 20’s are truly grateful for blogs like these and Antifeminists sites such as American Women Suck and nomarriage.com. Finally this year I have finally stopped aching for women this year thanks to these sites. This is because I now know what the truth is and the truth as set me free. Ten years ago this type of information wasn’t available online. It is truly amazing what the power of the internet and globalization can do.

Although my mother nature desire for young beautiful women is still strong, I know all I need about is to just get through school. I am one month and one semester away from getting a business degree. Make no mistake about it I will be in the drivers seat once I get to be around 30! With globalization and the power of the internet we can go to other countries where super model hot women will be competing for us.

I will soon create a blogger account (Winter Break) and will have an actual name. I will have to create a seperate email address for security reasons first.

P.S. I strongly recommend adding http://www.nomarraige.com to your antifeminist website links. It has many quality articles for men to read.

Keep up the goodwork!

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At 9:03 AM, Anonymous said…

Anyone else see the shaming language in Anon at 4:54 A.M.? Wonder what that might mean…

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At 11:31 AM, iwouldbefree said…

Make no mistake about it I will be in the drivers seat once I get to be around 30! With globalization and the power of the internet we can go to other countries where super model hot women will be competing for us.

Or perhaps, with globalization and the power of the internet, things will get even worse. There are already many internet scams going around. These women aren’t stupid. They know they’re in demand. And since you are only 24, and planning to cut loose when you’re 30, feminism has a good six more years to spread and infect countries that were previously “untouched”. Go Globalization.

And another issue. How do you know you’re going to live to be 30? These are perilous times we live in. No one is promised tomorrow.

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At 2:36 PM, Anonymous said…

Sorry if this has been covered before guys, but i’m just wondering what the results would be if a poll was conducted on whether males would give up their lives for women (titanic style).

I’m guessing that the level of antipathy towards females is higher today than it was when the poor souls went down in the titanic.

Personally, I would give up my life to save a child, but not a woman. I could just imagine some rad-fem scornfully abusing me for being sexist in allowing myself to die for her, so it just won’t happen. No more Mr Nice guy!!

Just wondering whether other men feel the same??

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At 2:47 PM, Anonymous said…

I am anon2:56 and 4:54, and this will be my last post on this thread.

First, to address anon4:36 and anon9:03, it seems rather I am the one making substantive points while you are doing the shaming/name calling. I don’t know if this is because you are a woman or you are ducking the issue, but it is still ironic and hypocritical.

Second, this site and others like it are doing a service to the male population by providing this sort of information. Some guys need to have this information, but won’t come looking until they get “burnt” and realize the game is not what it seems.

However, it seems common to these men’s sites that there is a bunker mentality with respect to women and relationships. It seems all the blogs and its readers have made it a doctrine that all women are no good and there is nothing good about having relationships with them. Many adhere to this doctrine as if it is infallible, and fall back on it to judge the merits of all arguments and information instead of making an objective analysis. It seems that you have an ulterior agenda, maybe you were once rejected, and use this as some sort of salve or way of inflicting retribution on women who rejected you.

The weakness of making this men’s movement a doctrine is that it precludes us from enjoying what is a natural experience. Had I clung so strongly to this doctrine when I met my last girlfriend, I would not have had some of the best experiences in my life. Not every woman hates men, not every woman lacks intelligence and a sense of humour or adventure. One needs to be open to possibilities to have new experiences. By letting those women who treat men badly prevent you from knowing good women, haven’t you let the bad women win the battle twice? You have let them treat you badly, then you let that experience prevent you from enjoying the company of nice women.

Third, I think there is something to be said about having a positive goal rather than a negative goal. Contrast some sites with “Mirror of the Soul”. That site, as often as it comments on the negative aspects of women and relationships, seems to have a perspective drawn to positive things, even though it is about cigars and cognac and success. I believe a positive frame work is more conducive to enjoying life; a negative perspective, in my personal experiences, leads to a closed mindedness and joyless life. Think about it: does it feel better when you are doing something you love, or do you feel better doing something to avoid something else?

Four, there are few things in life that proceed smoothly, and there shouldn’t be an expectation that relationships either. I hate as much as you do the materialism and superficial aspects of modern women, but it seems wrong that because there is this defect that a good relationship cannot be salvaged, nor that everything about the relationship from the dating to death proceed without a hickup. 50% of marriages still last; there must be some portion of that 50% that is good and positive.

Five, even if the environment is hostile to men-women relationships, doesn’t mean that there isn’t opportunities. Consider the web post 2000 – who thought that some companies can still make a fortune after the bust? But JBoss, YouTube and quite a few other sites have managed to do well in spite of what seemed a nuclear fallout.

Six, are we going to give up the fight, or do we fight like Churchill, like Bismarck or Don Juan at Levanto, and use craftiness and intelligence to win the war for those things we believe in, like the good of our Western society? Do we fight still like Dostoevsky who even after jail in Siberia, poor health and finances, perseveres to strengthen the noble qualities of developed cultures and fight the greed and destruction of immoral forces? There is a larger perspective to this relationship problem – look up at the stars. Relationships are only one aspect of life, and I believe it is better to be motivated by the larger scheme than to let my life be inflected at this one aspect of it.

Lastly, one doesn’t need to move away to a foreign country to attract women. Once you guys finish school and work, you will naturally understand yourselves better and have more confidence. That confidence will show and make you more attractive. Confidence and self-control is key.

Take care.

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At 6:26 PM, Anonymous said…

So, essentially, what you’re saying is ‘keep working on yourself and soon you’ll get a woman.’ This sounds suspiciously like that old yarn “how do you keep an idiot in suspense? I’ll tell you tomorrow!”

While these men are out there educating themselves, building a stable life-foundation, engaging in constructive behaviours that pay dividends in the long run, their female counterparts are out there engaging in every destructive act imaginable. Binge drinking, one-night stands, having children out of wedlock, ‘sexual experimentation’ (bisexuality), recreational drug use, among other things. The catch is that women have minimal consequences to their behaviour, while men have maximum consequences.

Now, what man who has built a solid house that, in previous eras, would have made himself quite the catch, would risk losing that equity in which he invested in his life to someone who contributed essentially nothing?

None.

Men are wising up to this shit, and wisely, they want no part of it.

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At 6:51 PM, Anonymous said…

“The weakness of making this men’s movement a doctrine is that it precludes us from enjoying what is a natural experience. Had I clung so strongly to this doctrine when I met my last girlfriend, I would not have had some of the best experiences in my life.”

Do you even read these blogs? These blogs exist because there are so few women that can be trusted anymore. Most guys would be happy to get together with a traditional woman in a setting where pop culture wouldn’t give her “ideas” about sexual freedom and moral stupidity.

Even anti-feminists enjoy women now and then, but they will not allow themselves to be trapped or tricked by predatory, promiscuous skanks. You can have great experiences with traditional women. However, most women are not traditional and are only good for a quick hump – or to be avoided.

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At 7:25 PM, Anonymous said…

Man that article hit the nail on the head. I have not seen it, but everyone here has mentioned it in one form or another. So here it is in its exact words, revenge. Yea thats right, REVENGE! We have all seem the posts, woman spends her early years partying it up like mad, then at 30, BOOM! total turn around. Then comes the cant find a good man, you guys are pigs, and other comments shaming us for not marrying them.
The reasons given not to marry them are not only good, but they ring true. The one that never gets spoken outright that needs to be said to them is revenge. Sweet, cold, callous revenge ladies, thats one reason why we dont even come in contact with you, let alone try to marry you. Why dont you ask the guys you have been seeing for the last ten years, oh they dont see you anymore, well what do you want me to do about it? No one wants to marry you, hey lifes a bitch, and so are you now get used to it.
Yep, its great knowing that the guys that have been passed over for so many years get the option for the last laugh, and I say take that option!

Panzer

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At 7:30 PM, Orion Blue said…

Unlike many posters on here, I am an older male – 42 years – and I arrived at many of these conclusions many years ago.

The rise of Feminazism is not such a recent occurrence, it has been going on for at least two generations even if it has evolved somewhat since then.

I, too, would have to concur that it was the rejections in my mid-late teens and early 20’s that brought about the ‘revelation’, though of course, it was not something that could be publicly commented upon as it was too easy to have it attributed purely to personal shortcomings rather than being seen in the wider societal context in which it is embedded.

It is also perfectly true that the types of men women choose is oddly perverse. They do want security, shelter, reliability, stability and all those things but in the meantime, they are determined to have some fun, whatever the consequences (absent fathers, brutality and so on).

I actually made the conscious decision not to marry when I was 18 because of the punitive divorce laws which have become worse in my own lifetime. I was of course ridiculed and told that I would change my mind though at 42 and well past my ‘prime’, I think I have answered my critics.

It might very well be some kind of neo-Darwinian ‘natural selection’ against me, but to counter that claim, I would point up the dysgenic nature of mate selection that is currently practised in the Western world, propped up as it is by a welfare system that props up women’s ‘independence’, for without this anti-Male tax, nature would be more likely to take it’s course.

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At 7:38 PM, Anonymous said…

“Get to know someone for a long time, maybe as a friend first for many years.”

All fine and dandy, but something tells me that you have never had a woman that you are interested in who you call a “friend” tell you about some really cute guy see spent the night with, or bring her new boyfriend along when you two are doing things. Let me give you a little advice kid, when a woman starts doing things like that, drop your heart in a bullet proof box, bolt the hatch shut, and forget about her. Spare yourself the trouble and get on with you life.

Panzer

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At 8:38 PM, Anonymous said…

“How do you know you’re going to live to be 30? These are perilous times we live in. No one is promised tomorrow.”

You are absolutely right! No one is indeed promised tomorrow. With that said I do have dreams and goals and as along as I am alive I will be working very hard make sure they will get met.

When I was 18 I was in deep pain aching for women but I realized it was all about the size of your wallet unless you were a dirtbag or an exciting bad boy. Therefore I put myself through college.

Now I am on target to graduate form College in May 07. In fact this has been the best year in my life because sites like this one, americanwomensuck, and nomarriage gave me very valuable information. Now I know what the truth is and the truth has set me free. Now I no longer ache or feel the pain of not having a beautiful woman in my life.

I am building my life for a better present and future and appreciating life as each day it goes on. I am doing the right thing to ensure success in my life.

In terms of globalization and feminism spreading to other countries you are absolutely right that this can happen. This is why you don’t get married or have a long term relationship. Whether you like it or not women will always be attracted to men who are perceived as being wealthy. A man can use this to his advantage. In Latin America and Asia an American or European man is considered to be more wealthy than the native men living in their country. Therefore American or European men will be treated well until they fail into the trap called marriage, then they will get screwed.

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At 9:28 PM, Bad Example said…

You want to be more independent, fine, go do it over there … away from me.

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At 10:11 PM, Anonymous said…

The opening comment of this thread is brilliant. Up to now I have been saying the same thing in a more folksy way that I read on a men’s rights forum some time ago:

“If the kitten didn’t want me I don’t want the cat.”

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At 10:39 PM, Anonymous said…

Goto Myspace or Facebook and Browse women with photos in this order

1st) 18-30

2nd) 30-40

Look into their eyes, look at the difference, you can almost feel the darkness bitterness and disillusionment in Group 2.

And if you think you’ve seen that look before you have. its the hardness of the faces of the street hookers in your town or the girls dancing in windows in Amsterdam.

Its the face of 1000 cocks.

Learn to spot it and avoid!

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At 10:42 PM, Ba1anced said…

To Anon 2:47

You sound like Pook from “The Mill”.
————
Anyway people, my opinion is that when we let that “justifiable anger” of being “burnt” and “looked over” by some silly, immature women fester and boil, it can take root and become lifelong bitterness, in which case (I THINK) we let radical feminism win another way instead of the standard way which is giving into the matriarchy. I think instead of the two extremes of handling this situation (giving into females whims vs. abandoning interaction totally) there is a better middle ground. It’s hard to put into words but it’s kind of like instead of developing anger, you develop a “positive indifference”. With women and interactions you ” hope for the best and expect the worst and if You decide to go further with her , You “test” her as they oh so do so much to us. I’m not sure if what I’m trying to say is coming out as clearly as I would like it to but I simply think the idea of being constantly angry at women and the governments that back them is sorta like the extreme opposite of ” putting the pussy on a pedestal.” You put so much energy towards focusing on the deceptive nature of women that you have no other time to focus on anything positive. All of that being said, I’m a young guy with much time (hopefully) before me. I just don’t want to be bitter. I’d rather find things in my life that release good positine thoughts and experiences in my mind than negative, poisonous thoughts.

DEATH TO THE “NICE GUY” WITHIN

P.S.

Does anyone know how to kill the bastard? Keeps popping up at the damnest of times.

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At 11:53 PM, Anonymous said…

We have all seem the posts, woman spends her early years partying it up like mad, then at 30, BOOM! total turn around. Then comes the cant find a good man, you guys are pigs, and other comments shaming us for not marrying them.

Yes, that seems to be a theme with the moo moos.

Wield shame like a hammer.

If you’re studious, hardworking, responsible, and strive to build yourself into a better person/develop excellent character when you are young they call you a geek and a nerd.

If, out of years of disgust at their behavior, you don’t want anything to do with them when you are older and established you are gay, a mamma’s boy, or a loser.

I guess one way to piss them off is to just agree with them “Yea, you’re right” and then walk away and continue with whatever you were doing.

If men don’t display an ego (weak point that women like to exploit) then women are powerless.

What can they say or do at that point other than stew in their own fetid and rotting juices?

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At 12:10 AM, Anonymous said…

As a 20 year old guy, 21 in December, from the USA, I can tell you that this site has totally changed my priorities in life.

That’s great news! Please spread the word to other young men.

Also, free look down the road, as a 42 yr old male once you hit 40 (at the latest) the mating effects women have on you (the source of all THEIR power is your desire of them) dies down considerably.

In the meantime, making a conscious effort to not look at them (this mechanical act neuters them) + stay focused on your professional and monetary goals will go a long way to reducing any power they might hold on you.

As a bonus, ignoring the born sluts and drama queens pisses them off to no end. Sense their reaction when you go through the course of a day making a conscious effort to not look at any females. It is hilarious!

Though, Duncan, I hope you keep everything backed up. Statements like this young man’s are not going to make the leaders of the Gynocracy happy.

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At 5:13 AM, Anonymous said…

Re: giving up my life for a woman (Titanic style).

BULLSHIT! If the bitch is my equal then she can fight me for a seat in the damned lifeboat!

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At 6:21 AM, Anonymous said…

OK – I wasn’t going to write more, but it seems I am not being very clear because people are misunderstanding me.

First, please read my messages in its entirety and respond to that instead of extracting one passage that you find offensive. If you read my messages in its entirety, you’ll see I am not disagreeing with the generally accepted proposition that there is a breakdown in relationships. On the contrary, I see the problems everyone here mentions quite often and have to deal with it among people I know. It is a problem.

Second, my point about getting to know women as friends first is not about being an “emotional tampon” or rather watching on as the female friend engages in intimate relationships while I pine for her. I never stated any such intention. My point about the friendship is for the opportunity to engage and witness the women’s behaviour in her natural environment so that I can make a good objective assessment of her personality. It becomes obvious that women who show poor morality or incompatible personality would not be considered suitable for personal relationship. Part of the problem with modern relationships is that people of both sexes are much too willing to jump into them based on first emotional reactions. How can one expect a relationship to last without knowing anything about the other person besides they look good?

Third, it is good that there is counsel to develop career and life independent of link to attracting women. I agree strongly with this, but I would prefer to state it as a positive choice in itself rather than as a distraction or reaction to women’s behaviour. There is meaning in life independent of women, and men have a duty to find and develop the meaning of their lives.

Four, I think it is still possible to engage in positive and meaningful relationships with women. It takes self-control and wisdom, though, to achieve this. This is an area that I would like to see more focus on these blogs, because I feel we are excluding some authentic joy in our lives by not giving the opportunity to the right women. In addition, please consider what type of women you are searching after. If you are searching after the beautiful women, then are you not also working on the superficial level of human interaction? Can other women, especially those less attractive, not accuse us men of being superficial and using women only for their looks? The “traditional” qualities you say you are looking can seem like you are applying a veneer of self-righteousness to your instinctive male behaviour.

Lastly, as ba1anced also advocated, I advocate a balanced approach to men-women relationships. We ought to approach relationships with our eyes open and with the right information, but we should also not let our anger blind us nor preclude us from having authentic and happy relationships. We should be like the best businessmen – don’t get angry, get the sale and make good use or enjoyment from it. But keep the principles; don’t sell out.

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At 7:56 AM, Christopher said…

Fellows;

As a healthy forty-five year old, let me assure you that the power women have over your gonads and your heart will virtually DISAPPEAR when you hit thirty. I’m not saying you will be impotent- far from it.

However, your sex drive will become entirely manageable, but more importantly, you will have spent a few years watching the women your age get older, too. For every year you age, a woman ages two. Believe me. If she starts pumping out kids, she deteriorates even faster. This is no lie, and not meant to insult women. It’s just a biological fact. Nature forces women to get ugly in order to make them undesirable to other men after they start breeding in order to keep them around to look after the children. Do you want to be forty with several decades of life ahead of you, and know that you are chained to an ugly old woman who can divorce you and ruin you completely? Can you imagine what it would be like to lie in bed next to an old woman? Think about it. Look at the average forty to eighty year old woman. Can you see yourself snuggling up to that rotting corpse? Can you imagine having (gag!) SEX with her?

Do as I did when I was in my twenties. Keep yourself busy with hobbies. Buy a motorcycle. Explore caves. Go camping. But do it without women. Avoid dating at all costs. It will drain your bank account and your sanity. It just isn’t worth it. Understand that you are being manipulated by nature to breed. That’s all. Nothing more. Once that is done, women quickly turn very ugly physically. Then comes menopause and they get horribly ugly within….

Trust me. It’s not worth it. The physical beauty of a woman fades so fast, and you are left with a withered old bag of cellulite. If you are in your twenties, it’s hard to visualize, but it’s true. Women age so fast. Men get old, while women get ugly. Resist the pressure of your friends who try to get you to date. These poor fools will be the ones who are paying child support and alimony in twenty years. They will be the ones buying Valtrex to treat their constant outbreaks of Herpes.

Stay single, and stay celibate. I did, and I am reaping the benefits every day.

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At 10:48 AM, Anonymous said…

Marriage needs to be worth the effort. The woman needs to be actively pursuing her duties.
Then marriage is excellent.
I wish I had a wife who I could support, who cooks a lot, gets more than 10 children, spends not much money and is friendly.
Friendliness is something most women lack when they are married for a long time.
Of course the woman needs to be young when married.

Maybe I will get such a woman. Changed laws would facilitate it a lot.

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At 1:58 PM, Bryce said…

It used to be that when Mom and Dad sat their daughters down to talk about “the facts of life,” they warned them of the consequences of hooking up with bad boys and that the nice guys would provide them the best hopes of having a family.

In fact, there used to be a song from Motown Records in the early 1960s about a girl who was disappointed that the guy she snubbed found someone else, and the heartache she felt was her own fault.

There wasn’t a similar song about the guy in that story, however. I bet he felt lots of pain, but was redeemed in the long run.

But these things no longer happen, because parents fail to take the time to educate their daughters, society fails to hold young women accountable for making bad choices, and we’ve put in place a social safety net to further insulate young women from the consequences of their choices.

So, if any readers out there are the fathers of daughters, educate them about nice guys and jerks and give them the information to make the right choice, and the consequences if they don’t. One particularly effective consequence is that you won’t give them any support in terms of paying their bills from the consequences of bad choices.

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At 4:42 PM, Anonymous said…

Guys, we have the power to get better babes, with less stress, and on our terms, if we only choose to use it.

There are 4 parts to this little lecture.

Part I:

How many of us spend our lives on constant alert for the woman who will respond to our attentions? Meaning, we have a low-level of anxiety all the time about being accepted/rejected by each and every female who we find attractive, right?

How about this philosophy:

1. girls only respond if they are interested, meaning it’s all about their current needs, ergo

2. there is very little a guy can do anyway — and certainly feeling angst is of no value whatsoever because it is read by women as weakness, therefore

3. the best policy is to give no attention, show no interest, and really not care — and you need to really feel this, not fake it –, and

4. let the women come to you if they want to.

The truth is that women are CONSTANTLY assessing all opportunities in their environment. They see you, they have already scored you on their little chick-checklist of what they want. They’ll signal you if they choose to pursue you.

But most important of all, you need to project and really feel that you do not care. This puts you in the driver’s seat. This gets rid of the angst. You don’t care.

Now for Part II

Now that you are in the driver’s seat, try occasionally doing what American girls do all the time when they are in the driver’s seat — like when you try talking to them in a bar. Yep, they run you over, turning you into instant roadkill.

So try deflecting women who try to signal you their “interest” or try to talk to you. Just try it. You will feel quite empowered, I assure you. You might have to wait a bit for one to try to get your attentions, but just act like a woman: let the naive target approach, then humiliate it with rejection. Run her over (figuratively of course). Let her feel what it’s like to be roadkill.

Once you have learned that YOU can do this too, you become a guy who realizes these things:

A. you have real worth as a human being

B. you have the power to say “no” to chicks

C. you don’t really need chicks at all — it’s actually they who are trying desperately to trap a guy

D. you will actually become much more attractive to chicks.

You see, women have a hard-wired radar system which seeks out guys with power and resources. They see tons of guys hitting on them like flies flying into a lightbulb on a hot summer night. They see this all the time, and they see these guys as drones. Like a million sperm cells trying to get their precious little egg.

If you do that, you look like a drone.

If they see you as an egg rejector, they’ll figure you are one of those rare guys who has choices. Why would you have choices? You must be royalty and/or wildly rich or powerful.

And there are 3 things chicks can’t resist:

-royalty
-wealth
-power

Because deep down, that’s all they really care about.

So remember. You have value. You have the power to reject. You should publicly and visibly exercise this power. Chicks respect power in all its forms (and they respect little else by the way, and certainly not your inner goodness).

So believe it or not, you will feel just as good about yourself if you go into that bar, and wait for the opportunity to reject some chick as you will feel if you got some other chick to go home with you.

Try it. You’ll be surprised. You’ll also have taught yourself something about women, and yourself. You’ll be more powerful for the rest of your life.

You have the power. Just learn how to use it. Just think like a chick. Then you’ll know, and then you’ll start winning.

Now Part III

Whatever you do, when you do get her into the sack, don’t ever let her get any of your sperm. EVER.

Your sperm is her nuke. She’ll drag you into court saying “he made me pregnant”, and YOU will be economic history. She will attach your paycheck for 20 years.

Guard your sperm like your life, because if your sperm gets into her (including if she pours it from a used condom into herself) it WILL be your life, and you will be her economic slave for 20 years.
Is that clear?

So in summary.

1. Hold back your attentions from women — let them come to you.

2. Practice exercising your power to reject women, and let other women see you do it.

3. Never, NEVER let a woman get your sperm — it’s her key to your bank account for the next 20 years.

One last thing:

Part IV

Don’t even think about getting married in the USA.

Marriage has become a money game run by divorce lawyers and chicks

The more money you make the greater the rewards to your wife when she divorces you. And by the way, did you know that you will have to pay the fees of her lawyer when she divorces you? Did you know THAT? It’s completely insane.

Divorce rates among successful men are frighteningly high — and it’s the women who are filing the divorces.

Don’t marry. Women will also respect you more for that too! Why? If you’ve never been married, they know you don’t have some other chick taking all your paycheck. Also, you again look like a guy who has choices. You look powerful by not having been trapped by some chick.

So the longer you stay unmarried, the more attractive you become, the more wealthy you become, the longer you will live and the better your life will be.

And if your parents want grandchildren and start pressuring you, simple tell them this:

“Gosh folks, if you want little babies, why don’t you adopt some?”

Tell your parents to go to China, because you are not willing to go to the living hell called “marriage” in America just so they can have grandchildren.

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At 4:51 PM, Anonymous said…

I’m 40 and have moved past ignoring women to avoiding them whenever possible. This is a problem because it drives them nuts and they tend to go out of their way to get in my face. The more I try to push them away the more aggressive they seem to get.

When you hit 40 and you see most of your buddies are divorced and those who are still married are not happy you realize that you have not missed out on anything. It was all lies. All those women in my life that kept telling me I needed to get married. They are the ones who are happy being unhappy making the men in their lives miserable. You young men need to stay single and focus on your dreams. For those of you who really want to be fathers and husbands I feel bad for you because in this environment it is almost impossible. Maybe someday the laws will change but for now best thing to do is stay away from women. They are nothing but dream killers.

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At 5:27 PM, Jerkmenistan said…

Reciprocal rejection solves nothing.

If you’re a young man in your early-20s, and women are rejecting you for the bad boys who can provide them with a sense of adventure, the solution is not waiting until your early-30s to reject women or to use them just for sex. Patience and revenge in the game of love are for losers.

The keys are self-confidence and discipline. Bad boys exhibit the former, namely, self-confidence that borders on arrogance. What the bad boys lack is discipline. This is why they eventually go nowhere in life. Nice guys lack the former, but usually have the latter in large supply.

Focus on yourself FIRST, but not to the exclusion of women. Burying yourself in books or your job are boring activities. Find hobbies that excite YOU personally, and invite women to share in the adventure. Put down the video game controller and pick up a barbell. Step away from the keyboard and into a martial arts studio. The list goes on and on.

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At 6:19 PM, Tsunami said…

That’s great news! Please spread the word to other young men.

CO-SIGN. The greater our numbers, the greater our strength. We need to turn the tide here, fellas!

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At 8:18 PM, Anonymous said…

jerkmanistan:

That’s stupid advice, what are you, a woman? Why do you have to seek out women to do activities with? Why do you have to stop playing video games if that’s what you enjoy? That is absolutely retarded.

This whole nice guy distinction is dumb too. Nice guy or bad boy, the girl will screw you over if you let them. The only reason the bad boy doesn’t get screwed over is because he won’t marry the girl, and won’t accumulate resources. If bad boys accumulated resources, they get the same problems. So telling someone to bust their ass and accumulate resources is the opposite of what a man should do.

Instead, a man should work LESS, make enough for ONE person, and then enjoy life that way. It’s those people that work really hard that really need others in their lives to help them with their misery. A guy that makes enough to pay rent, have a few hobbies, eat decent food, and have a bit left over in case something goes wrong is much happier than the guy that makes more than enough to do all these things and feels pressure to spend it or get a wife.

When you don’t make enough money, women generally also won’t bother you to get married, they don’t care at all about you, they just leave you alone. If you really still feel the need to get women, just read the “pick up artist” websites or books all over the internet, and copy those tactics. You’ll get the flings you want and actually get to “enjoy” women. Women provide nothing outside of sex, so why trick yourself into going after anything outside of that? Women aren’t offering anything else anyway. It’s not like younger women will commit to you anyway.

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At 8:22 PM, Davout said…

jerkmenistan,

You’re following the commonplace dating guru philosophy that abuses the male sexual drive: ‘Men should change themselves to adapt to women’s desires’. Your position is a double standard because you’re holding men to a certain mark while not doing the same for women.

You conveniently ignore some facts that drastically reduce the bargaining ability of women over ~30: (1) women’s fertility goes downhill after 27, rendering most barren by 40. (2) men can (and should) date and marry outside the Anglosphere (3) older men are attracted to younger women (4) older men have more money and experience than younger men (5) older men don’t think with their dick.

Hence, reciprocal rejection does tilt the balance in favour of older men.

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At 8:29 PM, Peregrine John said…

OFFS. This is getting ridiculous. I’m going to have to skip every anonymous comment henceforth, and every comment thread that is half or more anonymous. Done with trying to sort out the nameless.

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At 1:10 AM, Anonymous said…

“It becomes obvious that women who show poor morality or incompatible personality would not be considered suitable for personal relationship.”

Man, I cant argue with that. Your absolutely right.

“Like when you try talking to them in a bar.”

Sorry but, if your looking for quality women, you wont find them in a bar.

“You have the power. Just learn how to use it. Just think like a chick.”

No. What I have seen is that women judge desirable guys by how they make them feel, not by who they are. If I meet you, Im going to be honest, not play some games to see how you react. To do that is childish.

“Patience and revenge in the game of love are for losers.”

HA! Desperation is the true sign of a loser, and women seem to project this frequently when they get older. Revenge is simply an option, and I recommend you take it.
Well thats my two cents so far.

Panzer

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At 6:59 AM, Anonymous said…

Its the face of 1000 cocks.
Learn to spot it and avoid!

“The Face That Sucked A 1000 Cocks”

“The 1000 Cock Stare”

Yep. The hard, dead eyes are a giveaway.

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At 11:30 AM, khankrumthebulgar said…

Men who want a Family, and a wife. Must adopt Mitigation Strategies. That is they must adapt and use methods to minimize their Risks. I call it Risk Thresholds. How much Risk are you willing to take. Marriage to a Traditional Foreign Wife, 20% chance of Divorce vs. 50%, going ExPat your chances drop even more if you live in Non-Feminist Countries.

Having a Significant Other but non-cohabitation, Vasectomy so you cannot Spawn an annuity is another Strategy. That way you cannot get stuck with Child Support, or get her Pregnant. That Men must adopt such Strategies is the Fault of Women.

They refuse to reform the Divorce Laws. Do you want to be a sucker?! Go ahead and take the risk. Here are the risks Involuntary Celibacy in Marriage. One in Five US Marriages is Celibate. Meaning Sex less than once a year. Why get Married then?

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At 4:41 PM, Jerkmenistan said…

Let me know when some of posters criticizing me have actually READ and UNDERSTOOD my comment. For now, your responses read like nothing more than keyboard jockeying by 15 year-olds trying to sound authoritative about women.

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At 7:24 PM, Anonymous said…

“The 1000 Cock Stare”

That is a perfect description. I wish I had thought of that. I see in most women over 30 now.

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At 8:24 PM, Anonymous said…

If i could live my life over again, there is at least one thing i would do.
Give away all my money to my brother and not own a property. After any children have grown up and my wife has remained loyal, then i would retrieve my assets and trust her.
I realise now my ex only married me because she had something to take from me. Perhaps this is what is wrong with western materialistic culture. People used to marry partly to give support to one another through hard times. Nowadays it hardly gets to hard times before marriage ends.
One thing is for sure, my son will be well aware of the risks of marriage and cohabitation should those laws come in.

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At 11:05 PM, Anonymous said…

I am the 13th comment, anonymous 4:36, also known as 64 year old anonymous.

Response to anonymous 2:56am; 4:54 am; 2:47 pm (“this will be my last post on this thread”); also apparently 6:21 AM (“I wasn’t going to write more, but”…)

>>First, to address anon4:36 and anon9:03, it seems rather I am the one making substantive points while you are doing the shaming/name calling. I don’t know if this is because you are a woman or you are ducking the issue, but it is still ironic and hypocritical.

Huh??? I went through my 4:36 comment, and found no shaming/name calling at all. Can I assume this 4:36 was a typo? Let us hope so.

But, I must wonder, what on earth is wrong with shaming (though it’s not obvious who is being shamed) if it is directed at the American woman? I can’t tell what you mean, since 4:36 had no shaming nor name calling. I will say there has been in the last 40 years way too much insulting and attacks between men, and that is why nothing was done about man-hating.

>>…I held off on commitment and succeeded and learned about the dynamics of male-female relationships. More secure financially, more adept socially and more knowledgeable about women and relationships, it is rather easy to engage in relationships…

>>…I want to find out how to find the right woman.

Um, run through that again. You either learned about the dynamics of male-female relationships, or you didn’t. If you did, then you know how to find the right woman.

Don’t take it too hard if you get dumped on a bit here. This URL is clearly named, to make it clear it advocates not marrying, at least not to “Western” women, which I assume includes US; Canada; England, of course Australia and NZ as a minimum. Not at all. Not ever. Here is a quote from the right column of comment page: “So make the best of things! Join the Marriage Strike, tell modern Western Women to get lost and live for yourself.”

In 1985, though I had been married already for ten years to a Mexican wife, I was working with divorced men, reading court cases, and realized I would NEVER again marry in the US. I chose to stay married, because it makes no sense to divorce to avoid divorce… Another 21 years have passed, still married, but with great relief I am living in Mexico, most of the time.

I can tell you how to find the right one, but since you think she was born and raised in the US, I will limit my comments to the US women. A friend and I developed a system by which one can dramatically reduce the odds of being divorced. (In the US, anyone who thinks he can drive the odds of divorce to zero pretty much deserves all that is going to happen to him, which is the point of this URL, right?) I realize as soon as I post it, someone who has not spent 12 seconds in his life thinking about it or investigating it will think for a solid 15 seconds and tell me the errors of my thoughts.

The whole idea is that most men select a wife from the prettiest woman he can attract, who is also fun to be with. Neither of these things have anything to do with a wife.

THE LONG METHOD:

1. Do not marry a divorced woman or unwed mother. (Higher divorce rate than first marriages.)

2. Do not marry a woman who was raised by a divorced woman or unwed mother. (Ditto.) (Let me point out here that there has been proven a strong correlation between a woman’s relationship with her father and her behavior as a wife. No dad; lousy wife. Close, loving relationship with dad, very low divorce rate, very good marriages.)

3 . Look for a woman who has ever done ANYTHING for anyone. Sounds strange, but one quickly learns that most US women really never have done anything for anyone. Not ever. This involves caring for the well-being of other people than herself, and most US women really don’t.

4. Look for a woman who has some respect for an external authority, rather than “if it feels good, do it” because that means the day she is bored with you, she divorces you instead of making things better. In most cases, external authority means some sort of religious moral code, the belief that there is someone greater than herself making rules. (Yes, I know ‘Christian women’ have the same divorce rate as non-Christians, the problem is most Christian women really don’t believe a word of their alleged faith. See #1, 2, 3.)

5. Do NOT select a woman for her beauty. That doesn’t mean all ugly women make good wives, see #1,2,3, 4, but beautiful women attract worms, also called bad boys, who seduce them, and they leave you for him. The more beautiful a woman is, the more worms she attracts, and who are willing to work to seduce her. Beauty is the least important thing about a woman, but to most divorced men, it was #1 item on their list.

THE SHORT METHOD:

Seriously. Find out how they drive. A very significant percentage of women drive like fiends. They ignore speed signs; stop signs; run stop lights. They are also called divorcees, if you simply wait a while. This is because they clearly do not respect external authority, nor do they care about the well-being of other people. They pretty much do what they want, and they do it when they feel like it, no matter who suffers nor who is put at risk. I naturally do not know all the women in the country, nor care to, but I have never known a woman who drives like this who wasn’t eventually divorced. Nor do I know any women who are divorced who don’t drive like this.

The best answer, even better than never marry, is Get the H**l out. go to a country such as the Philippines where there is no divorce. (To the man who thinks it will eat up the whole world, the odds of a nation like the PI which has no divorce at all suddenly changing to a no-fault system in which adulterous women get everything is very small. In Mexico, if a woman commits adultery, the husband gets everything. Trained specialists can get good jobs in Mexico, though the pay will be high on the Mexican scale, not the US. I am guessing the PI is for retirees, but don’t know.

By the way, since year after year, there are two marriages for one divorce in the US, it is commonly believed that 50% of all marriages end in divorce. Yet, there is evidence that only 40% of first marriages end in divorce. This is because of serial divorcees, somewhat akin in damage to children and society to serial rapists or serial murderers.

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At 1:15 AM, Anonymous said…

“DEATH TO THE “NICE GUY” WITHIN

P.S.

Does anyone know how to kill the bastard? Keeps popping up at the damnest of times.”

Yes. One method would involve guided meditation (aka hypnosis). The sub-conscious mind, also known as the “soul”, can overwrite any “programming” in the brain. You can use “triggers” (something such as a word or an action which sets off an event) to control your actions and reactions to those things you wish.

Your soul can pretty much do anything you wish, but you will require the services of a qualified hypnotherpist to do so or someone who knows the “art”. You can later get into self-hypnosis (meditation) though IMO with much lesser control and results. The power of such tools at your disposal is truly amazing – guided meditation (aka hypnosis) is certainly not only for smoking cessation, motivation or weight control.

Lastly, as this is a rather unique approach it really puts you in the drivers seat. Personally, I wouldn’t want to “destroy” my inner nice guy but I only help those whom are equal minded like guys I know whom “watch my back”.

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At 1:57 AM, Anonymous said…

Women over thirty are morethannot *damaged goods*. They didn’t get it. They still don’t get it. And they probably thats right never will get it. Try to make man happy when all he really wants in life is to try to make me and the family happy?, they ask. That sure isn’t enough for a superior person like *ME!* says her, ie the vagina holder. She will hate and *feel* whatever she is told, especially if it benefits *her* fantasized as superior, mindless child ass. Remember, she foundations from emotion, NOT logic, from there it all makes sense, but I would hope you already understand that. Give her all the *power* but less or no the responsibilities, and look where family, or love, goes, welcome to the jungle mofos. She doesn’t want to make love, you cry?!(again) Well, how can a loveless idiot give desire that? And let me say right now: if you ever, ever date at all, and feel like she is withholding sex, move on, because you’re wasting time, time that you could be using to build your wealthy future, or doing whatever else you want for matter. So. She thinks it’s all about her, but like all the other feminists/influenced, they are far from happy, obviously, because they’re ignorant, they aren’t getting what they really need in life, just what they’ve been conned into because they’re suckers, mad as hell, they really don’t care for men at all, just the status or future status. Unless she is incredibly super ugly, there is a graymatterreason she isn’t married yet, face that fact, cause and effect. Or go ahead guys, let her 2face you into marriage, she’s probably different isn’t she, can’t you handle a strong suicide?

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At 2:45 AM, Verlch said…

Yeah, 20% of men get to do all the sexual plundering, then when miss bad ass realizes she is 30 without a decent man to love her into old age she flips out. She does one of two things, she drinks and smoke her life away, or she starts trying to find men to fertilize her last egg!!!

Yet after stooping to such miserable lowers American Heifers still maintain the “I’m a bitch” mandatory levels.

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At 2:55 AM, Anonymous said…

Re Comment 50:

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I admit my earlier posts were not very clear. Regarding your comments on my points: I held off on marriage during my ’20s and focused on work. Success was referring to my professional career, although I did become more successful with women.

That said, although I understand the dynamics of attracting female attention and getting them emotionally involved, that isn’t the same thing as marriage. What works on a short term basis, or even 1 to 2 years, will be different from a marriage that lasts the rest of one’s life. It is to this that I want to draw more attention.

I agree with Jerkmenistan’s point that reciprocal rejection is not the answer. It may be good to avoid untrustworthy women, but avoiding women altogether seems defeatist to me. I did have some really good times with my girlfriend and she was also one of the best friends I ever had. What was a good work experience in Europe became a great time because of her. This is of course anecdotal evidence, and I see , as I mentioned many times already, the disintegration of men-women relationships all around me, but I can’t ignore my experiences completely either.

Perhaps what I fear most is that some of these blogs, through presenting only one aspect of this issue, may preclude some younger men from giving opportunity to the right women. This is not just your own life you are talking about, this is someone else’s life you are trying to effect. At the end of the day, each person must live by their decisions, and I think it better to have a complete perspective on the issue so that a person isn’t necessarily closing doors on potential good experiences. But I agree with most men’s posts that relationships with women can lead to disastrous results.

Still, the question remains whether this picture is the totality of reality.

The first question: are men in successful relationships going to be visiting these sites? Does it raise an alarm that this blog and similar ones might be echo chambers for those with failed relationships?

Two: why does anyone expect every relationship to be good from start to finish? No matter what one does in life, there will be challenges. Work can be as challenging as marriage; setting up your own business will be just as difficult and can leave you just as broke; there is no guarantee of getting a good job with a university degree. Marriage, like everything else, requires intellectual effort and physical effort to work. All we hear on these sites is that marriages are failing; rarely is any information given about how the husband managed the relationship and whether his management was up to par. Are all efforts worth the same?

Three: does it make sense to adopt the same shrill and toxic communication styles favoured by the militant feminists? I get sick when I read some of those militant feminist sites, because their rough language gives me the impression that they are unintelligent, unreasonable and, most importantly, very hateful. Do we want to mirror that kind of attitude? Are we trying to bring information and change, or are we trying to stoke our own anger and foment hurt among women?

I am trying to advocate a reasonable attitude to this discussion. When I was younger, I would use to snub my parents and not show up for dinner when I was angry with them. My pride prevented me from having a good meal and it solved nothing at the end of the day. I would hate to think that I lived to 80 and didn’t give myself a chance to lead a full life because of prideful hurt at some transgression by some people.

/law student

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At 5:49 AM, Cornholio said…

Please, for sake of everyone present, pick a handle and use it; it doesn’t even take two seconds. You don’t have to register, you don’t have to disclose your identity. Clicking anonymous is just lazy.

Posting things like “I’m the anonymous poster who said . I’m not the anonymous who said ” gets on everyone’s nerves.

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At 12:28 PM, khankrumthebulgar said…

The Divorce Stats in California are so grim the State no longer compiles them. They are afraid of scaring off the Male populace. Lee on dontgetmarried.com has posted these for some time. They are not 50% put closer to 80%. Guaranteed failure.

Bart Simpson on Dontgetmarried.com has a Sister Married four times at least. She marries a guy with money, stays with him long enough to Cash out on him. Its a Scam she is running. Enabled by the Legal Vultures and corrupt system. And why not there are no sanctions against her behavior, and its easy.

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At 8:31 PM, Paul Parmenter said…

It is good to see so many constructive comments here. Duncan, you have hit the jackpot on this one. Probably because it is a vitally important debate – are women worth marrying at all?

Unfortunately the very fact that this can be a subject for debate shows just how far down the slope women have slid, and just how far the disgust of men has been provoked. This question would never have entered the head of any sane man 50 years ago. Now large numbers of perfectly sane men are asking it and disagreeing on the answer.

There are now two very big problems: the nature of marriage itself – hacked about by politicians and the legal profession and bastardised so as to take power out of the hands of husbands and place it in the hands of wives; and the nature of women, whose morality and character is tested by the power they have been given, and which so often come up short.

So marriage is now not a state to be desired by men, but a state of risk – marriage to the right woman can still be rewarding, but marriage to the wrong one will for sure be disastrous. And the terrible thing is that no man can know for sure how any woman will react to the power she is given in marriage until he is actually married to her, by which time it is too late.

I would certainly echo the advice given above by Anonymous 11.05 – never consider marrying a divorcee, or the daughter of a divorcee, or a single mum. But that just eliminates certain high risk women. What are you to do when probably every woman you will ever meet presents some sort of risk to you, greater or lesser but still a risk?

This is just a more important version of the dilemma facing men who are brought up to offer their seats to women on buses and trains. But once you have been publicly berated and humiliated by a woman calling you a chauvinist pig for doing so, you think twice about doing it again. And if it happens again, you learn that it was not just one rogue female that you were unlucky enough to run into; there are more of them out there. And if you see more women doing the same to more men, you learn that there is an epidemic of rude, unpleasant women, so you seriously consider never offering up your seat to any woman ever again. And it doesn’t matter how many women tell you they would smile, accept your offer and say thankyou; you simply don’t know who will do so and who won’t. So you don’t take the risk.

Now I don’t care if the risk of divorce and the loss of your home, children and material wealth is at 50% or 40%; that is still outrageously high. I would consider even 10% a dangerous level. Would you play Russian roulette with a gun with ten chambers, and a bullet in one of them? Neither would I. So doing it with a gun with only two chambers has to be accounted utter madness.

So sorry, but I am with the “don’t marry at all” guys on this one. Marriage is a busted flush in the Western world, and the better it is put out of our misery the better. But there is still great hope; just because marriage is broken, does not mean that all human relationships are. It just means that a great social institution that worked very well for centuries has come to the end of its usefulness, like a juicy apple that has become infested with worms and is now rotten and inedible. If it can’t be restored to what it was before, it must be thrown away and replaced with something better. Maybe the next step in the debate is to discover what that something better might be.

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At 10:06 PM, Anon Person said…

“law student”

I agree with Jerkmenistan’s point that reciprocal rejection is not the answer. It may be good to avoid untrustworthy women, but avoiding women altogether seems defeatist to me.

Avoiding all women isn’t the answer, but avoiding the going divorce rate percentage of them is. It IS good to avoid untrustworthy women, not MAYbe.

The first question: are men in successful relationships going to be visiting these sites? Does it raise an alarm that this blog and similar ones might be echo chambers for those with failed relationships?

I’m single and always have been, mid-30’s, and enjoy informative sites such as this one that actually cover reality. And it’s this reality thing that makes sites like this one important for all walks of life that value truth. The only alarm comes from posters that seemingly are here only for some kind of denigration.

All we hear on these sites is that marriages are failing; rarely is any information given about how the husband managed the relationship and whether his management was up to par.

It’s well known women complain at any given chance. You haven’t heard true complaints about hubby because he’s not at fault; it’s her that wants out of the marriage on a whim.

Three: does it make sense to adopt the same shrill and toxic communication styles favoured by the militant feminists? I get sick when I read some of those militant feminist sites, because their rough language gives me the impression that they are unintelligent, unreasonable and, most importantly, very hateful. Do we want to mirror that kind of attitude? Are we trying to bring information and change, or are we trying to stoke our own anger and foment hurt among women?

More rhetorical questions used in the attempt to devalue.

I am trying to advocate a reasonable attitude to this discussion.

Most modern Western women have proven they cannot make a commitment to marriage. Discussions in these sites are normally very important because they revolve around such truths. Men, eventually, will cognize reality because of sites like this one. Now, this won’t be good for well, scum that profit from ignorance, but there will be much less suffering in the world, for men and women and children, because of sites like this one, because the intentions are to promote wisdom.

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At 10:42 PM, Hope said…

Paul Parmenter asks what that something better might be. I have been thinking just that having seen an old Daily Mail article about a man that had 3 sons via an American surrogate mother. He paid £50,000 and his children now live with him in Britain.
I am a man of average means but my ex cost me way in advance of that figure. We had one child and now i pay child support, with reduced income as she gets all working tax and child credits.

It WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER for me to have done what that chap did. I would see my child/ren whenever i wanted and have all that money which i earned.
Women seem to be offered all the lifestyle choices, why can’t i demand a child from some woman to satisfy my biological ticking?
I think 2 parents are better than one, but if large numbers of women are going to deny men their place in the family, men will just have to take this route and have their own family (woman not included).

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At 12:56 PM, Anonymous said…

“Observational Friendship” – a bit of a waste of time really. If she sees you only as “a friend” then there is likely to be very little chance of a relationship developing (except on her terms, of course, if you are that STUPID !). If, over time, she does “lower her sights” (remember, you were never ever her first choice), having realised she is not marriageable and rejected her, you will have lost a ‘friendship’.

Stick to the old tried and tested method of dating and observing her from there.

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At 3:16 PM, Anonymous said…

Hope, here’s a link to what your talking about “Fatherhood by a New Formula“.

If this were to become popular then I’m sure medical tourist hot-spots would get in on the act and the costs could be greatly reduced and make it possible for a man with just a reasonable income to have a family without taking on the liability of a fickle, lying and spiteful western wife.

And no doubt the fembots would swing into action and call for legislation to stop it just like they did with IMBRA.

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At 6:34 PM, Anonymous said…

@anon
Beauty is the least important thing about a woman, but to most divorced men, it was #1 item on their list.

Of course I want a beautiful wife.

go to a country such as the Philippines where there is no divorce.

I want a western wife, not an asian.

Do not lower your standards just because of some stupid laws which will change in the future.

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At 6:41 PM, Anonymous said…

@anon
Instead, a man should work LESS, make enough for ONE person, and then enjoy life that way.

You should work hard to have more money.

Women provide nothing outside of sex, so why trick yourself into going after anything outside of that? Women aren’t offering anything else anyway. It’s not like younger women will commit to you anyway.

Women offer children, work in the house, cook and are likable.
I love women when they are cute and nice, so they offer a lot.
Just the laws make them dangerous.

Duncan, could not you integrate a forum into your blog? It would be nice to discuss the topics with others and it would be possible to discuss ideas of readers, too.

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At 8:01 PM, Anonymous said…

“I want a western wife, not an asian.

Do not lower your standards just because of some stupid laws which will change in the future.”

If you want to run the risk of losing your house being falsely accused of abuse. If you want to pay big alimony payments for the rest of your life than go ahead and get married.

Here are the California divorce statistics.

As we all know over 70% of divorces are initiated by women.

Here is a femizazi confession!

Confession of a feminazi

As I write this, I am aware that I am probably going to offend some readers, but, then again, I have found that we in society are afraid and unaccepting of the truth, therefore taking offense. I can not apologize for what I am about to say, however I can only hope to attempt to undo the wrong that I have done.

To start with, here is a little bit about myself. Before I was married, I was an extreme feminist, with the hopes and dreams of equality, having the same thoughts and beliefs as others in the fight for true equality. It wasn’t like the feminists of today, who only want to gain complete control, power, and to have revenge, destroying everything that the true feminists have fought so hard for (true gender equality). It is my hope that by posting my story and comments, that it will encourage other women, (we/you know who you are), to come forward and to tell the truth about themselves and their experience. Here is my story, as shameful as it may be.

I am a single mother of two. When I decided to leave my marriage, (I was bored), I went to three different lawyers for advice. I was asked by all 3 of them if I was ever abused by my husband. My answer was, never in any way shape or form was my husband abusive towards me. To my utter disbelief, all of them told me the same thing. Unless I accused my husband of abuse, I would not gain sole custody of my children. They also told me that by making these allegations against him, that I would get EVERYTHING and more. When I asked them how we would prove the allegations, I was told that the courts don’t require proof, and to go to a women’s shelter, and that they would help me, and that it would support my allegations of abuse.

Having been brought up in a very religious family, I was very uncomfortable with this advice. I was then told by the lawyers, that if I wanted the full support of legal aid, I had no choice but to make the allegations against my husband. Having no money to pay for legal expenses, I did as I was advised. Reluctantly I took my children to a women’s shelter. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. On the outside, it appears as they want the public and their funders to see it. This is however, far from the truth.

This place was a form of a cult, (for lack of a better term). Male bashing was a top priority, and the administration was very adamant about recruiting yet another woman (me), to join this man-haters club. They even have a game plan on how to win in court. By following their simple plan step by step, I would not only get sole custody of my children, but also the car, house and land, plus finances for the rest of my life.

However, if I did not follow their game plan, but if I played fairly, I would lose everything, and I would be endangering the lives of other women, and would jeopardize any funding for them. The administration must have noticed that their brain washing techniques were not working as fast as they wanted, so I was ‘thrown’ at the other women staying there.

Terms such as ‘sperm donors’, and that all men were abusive and must die, were used on a daily basis. They were very convincing, and not wanting to jeopardize my fellow house mates, I went along with their game plan.

As soon as I said that I would follow their game plan, things moved very quickly. I saw the man that I was once married to destroyed emotionally, financially and physically. I was granted sole custody of our children, and because of a restraining order, I gained the house and car, so that our children wouldn’t lose everything that they were used to.

Not only was there a restraining order against him, he was also charged with assault. The man who had equally created our children, helped raise them, and who loves them dearly, was ordered to stay away from them, and to pay me, (more than I ever needed), support for them. Like I said, I destroyed him, leaving him with very little to survive.

My brother is now going through a custody battle, where my former sister-in-law is playing exactly the same game that was taught to me by a women’s shelter, and my brother is in the same shoes that I once put my ex in.

Knowing how I destroyed my ex, and seeing the wrong that I had committed, I have made it my personal endeavor to help my brother with his fight. He recently joined a men’s group, and he receives messages on the net from shared parenting, epoc_news etc.

As he was thrown out of his home, he now lives with me, which gives me the opportunity to read the messages from these groups. I must admit, sometimes there is a message or two that is of great help, but for the most part, these groups have to stop playing ‘Mr. Nice Guy’.

Dads On The Air

Bert

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At 9:48 PM, law_student said…

Re: Anon 10:06

It still amazes me sometimes how people are misreading comments and substituting their own words for a commenter’s.

I have written a number of comments in this thread, a few more than I intended really, but the thrust of my comments have always been to consider the issues objectively, ie. from all the angles, to arrive at a better assessment of the issue i light of all the circumstances in one’s life. You, and a few others, have taken this to mean that I am denigrating or devaluing the position espoused in this blog. But I have stated in almost every single comment that I agree there is a problem in men-women relationships; where I disagree is that this problem exists in every relationship and that there is no possibility of engaging women in healthy and meaningful relationships. I bring up this up this point because it seems taken for granted that there is no potential opportunities for good relationships.

My questions, then, are meant to raise alternative viewpoints, so that one can consider the issue more thoroughly and come away with a more realistic picture, taking into consideration all the circumstances of one’s life. It does men a disservice if we propagate a message that might be true in 50% of the entire reality as if it is entirely true; haven’t we prevented men from finding a way to make themselves part of the other successful 50%? As a mature man, do you approach a decision in your life only by considering only one side of the issue? This seems to me a weakness in the thinking and reasoning process.

As for managing the relationship, I can only agree that women can often complain and that their thinking isn’t as long-term or principled as men’s. But there are a number of ways to look at this issue: 1) women think differently from men and we can’t expect them to see things exactly as we see them; 2) there are still things men can do to control the course of a relationship, and in fact, every man does have a responsibility to do something about this. There was a comment earlier that women do not appreciate that men are working hard to support their families, and that this doesn’t make sense. On one level, that is true. But men and women are approaching relationships for different reasons and different positions. The women’s focus tends to be centered on herself more, and when she has children, will be more concerned with raising her children. There is an inherent tendency among women to do this because of evolutionary psychology to raise her young, and it is also seen in the animal kingdom. Men have a different attitude, more in line with conquering the environment, which gets translated to achievement and success in the human world. These differences in perspective will thus manifest itself in different behaviour and different needs. So what men need in their lives is going to be different than what women need, and if we are going to just pay attention to ourselves without considering the woman’s needs, then she will find it elsewhere.

Additionally, a relationship is not a static thing; like a friendship, it takes actions that maintain and enhance the relationship. These actions are going to be different among men than between men and women. How is it possible to do nothing in a friendship and expect it to thrive or last? It will inevitably decline. Relationships are also a 2-way communication, and what is being conveyed must be received to be effective. It either falls on the receiver to understand what the transmitter is trying to say, or the transmitter must adapt to the receiver’s protocols, to have effective communication. So my point about managing the relationship is about understanding what the other person needs and ensuring that the communication of those needs is effective.

Lastly, I will close with a couple of comments. I first would like to bring attention to the post WWII activities when the US through the Marshall plan rebuilt its enemies Japan and Germany. It would seem intuitive that US would punish these two countries, but instead invested quite heavily to follow this plan, and for it, have not only benefited Japan and Germany but their own interests against Soviet Union and China. Secondly, I think it’s OK to bring forth information about the decay of men-women relationships and some women’s behaviour. But it is a different story to advocate that all men should abstain from relationships from all women, and I favour an approach that alerts men to the risks of relationships with bad women but helps them find the good ones.

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At 5:54 AM, anon p said…

law_student said…
It still amazes me sometimes how people are misreading comments and substituting their own words for a commenter’s.

I have written a number of comments in this thread, a few more than I intended really, but the thrust of my comments have always been to consider the issues objectively, ie. from all the angles, to arrive at a better assessment of the issue i light of all the circumstances in one’s life. You, and a few others, have taken this to mean that I am denigrating or devaluing the position espoused in this blog. But I have stated in almost every single comment that I agree there is a problem in men-women relationships; where I disagree is that this problem exists in every relationship and that there is no possibility of engaging women in healthy and meaningful relationships. I bring up this up this point because it seems taken for granted that there is no potential opportunities for good relationships.

No, it’s more that there are so very few rational reasons to sign a legal document that binds yourself to a woman that will PROBABLY screw you at least a little, maybe a lot, or maybe totally, that well, why do it?

My questions, then, are meant to raise alternative viewpoints, so that one can consider the issue more thoroughly and come away with a more realistic picture, taking into consideration all the circumstances of one’s life. It does men a disservice if we propagate a message that might be true in 50% of the entire reality as if it is entirely true; haven’t we prevented men from finding a way to make themselves part of the other successful 50%? As a mature man, do you approach a decision in your life only by considering only one side of the issue? This seems to me a weakness in the thinking and reasoning process.

No, I don’t, that’s what a western wife does, and quite destructively at that. I wouldn’t even call it thinking.

As for managing the relationship, I can only agree that women can often complain and that their thinking isn’t as long-term or principled as men’s. But there are a number of ways to look at this issue: 1) women think differently from men and we can’t expect them to see things exactly as we see them; 2) there are still things men can do to control the course of a relationship, and in fact, every man does have a responsibility to do something about this. There was a comment earlier that women do not appreciate that men are working hard to support their families, and that this doesn’t make sense. On one level, that is true. But men and women are approaching relationships for different reasons and different positions. The women’s focus tends to be centered on herself more, and when she has children, will be more concerned with raising her children. There is an inherent tendency among women to do this because of evolutionary psychology to raise her young, and it is also seen in the animal kingdom. Men have a different attitude, more in line with conquering the environment, which gets translated to achievement and success in the human world. These differences in perspective will thus manifest itself in different behaviour and different needs. So what men need in their lives is going to be different than what women need, and if we are going to just pay attention to ourselves without considering the woman’s needs, then she will find it elsewhere.

Some men understand the nature of the typical Western woman well enough to never legally bind themselves to her. Odds are this is a wise move, like it or not. She may find something somewhere else, but she’ll never stop wanting. Just look at her, she’s not held accountable for a damn thing after suckering him into marriage(or anytime), but yet she can’t stand it, always wanting more. And then still men are blamed. Woman’s every need has been considered in other words, look where it’s gotten us. How many inventions will it take, for example. Men have been out there doing it, watching her back the whole time, and all for this. Woman’s attitude has “changed” since feminism, not the attitude of most real men, and that’s reflected everywhere, can you not see that? Men haven’t ruined the prospect of marriage, dumb women have. Women’s attitude towards MEN must change, and men must start holding women accountable for their actions. It’s obvious where the blame lies, it’s effects are all over the damn place, but you have to be willing to recognize it first. I’ll change your last sentence to:

So what women need in their lives is going to be different than what men need, and if we are going to just pay attention to ourselves without considering the men’s needs, then eventually they will recognize that there is nothing in marriage for them, and rightfully avoid it.

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