Baby blues


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12 January 2007

A young woman at work the other day inspired surreptitious sniggering from me as she bragged that she wanted to have four children but did not want to have any until she was “at least thirty.”

Oh boy.

Women seem to be endlessly narcissistic these days, with their endless infatuation with themselves individually and as a sex. Yet they have a startling lack of knowledge about biology. Their most fertile years are between 16 and 21, and the biological clock starts ticking down by the late 20s. By the thirties not only are women less fertile – possibly as barren as the Sahara by 35 – but the risk of birth defects and miscarriages rises too.

According to Wikipedia:

Birth defects, especially those involving chromosome number and arrangement, also increase with the age of the mother. According to the March of Dimes, “At age 25, a woman has about a 1-in-1,250 chance of having a baby with Down syndrome; at age 30, a 1-in-1,000 chance; at age 35, a 1-in-400 chance; at age 40, a 1-in-100 chance; and at 45, a 1-in-30 chance.”[3]

Multiplying the conception rate times the miscarriage rate times the birth defect rates should yield a rough likelihood of a healthy birth:

30-year-olds: .91 x .85 x .999 = 77%
35-year-olds: .84 x .80 x .9975 = 67%
40-year-olds: .64 x .55 x .99 = 35%

So even at 30, there’s almost a one-in-four chance the woman will miscarry or have a spaz baby. By 40 it’s a two-in-three chance. Sure, no pregnancy is risk-free for either the mother or baby, but clearly you’re far better off trying to have children with a woman under 30; ideally under 25. Obviously us men know this instinctively, hence our tendency to go for young women instead of old flappy-titted career bints, although women – especially old flappy-titted career bints – tend to assume this is some sort of vast sexist conspiracy and go friggin’ mental.

So anyway, Miss Career Girl at work is explaining how she wants all her children in her thirties and another young woman pipes up that this sounds like a good idea, and that she “couldn’t imagine being stuck changing nappies at my age” (25) and that “It would be best to have kids four-years apart; one at 30, one at 34 then the third at 38.”

Much nodding and agreement ensued.

I sat nearby, both amused and despairing at these two.

Neither is married anyway, although one does have a live-in boyfriend for the past four-years who, much to her annoyance, has not proposed and shows no sign of doing so. That’s probably because he wants children. Healthy ones. I haven’t met the guy but I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the reasons he hasn’t proposed is that he wants kids but his potential wife doesn’t want to have them until its probably too late. I’ve encountered a few women in their thirties who are bemoaning about men’s lack of commitment, that they can’t find a husband to start a family with, that they really want children and so on, and then start moaning about some evil bastard ex-boyfriend who lived with them for years then ditched them for a younger woman. They can’t see that they screwed it up by insisting on spending their most fertile years on the pill and working at their career, enjoying the power they had in their twenties over men, and not wanting children until their fertility is rapidly declining. Then, in their thirties, they are surprised that guys don’t pay much attention to them, or that long-term boyfriends ditch them for younger women. Then they get all upset and moan and complain about men. (One career woman I used to work with was always moaning that not long after she turned 29 her live-in boyfriend of about five-years broke up with her then proceeded to meet and marry a younger woman with whom he promptly had a child, all within the space of two-years; she was especially annoyed that he was married so soon after breaking up with her. “That is so disrespectful, he could have waited” she insisted, as if the guy should have put off marrying his new woman a few more years just for the benefit of his ex-girlfriend’s ego.)

Boo-hoo, I give a shit. Really I do.

In addition, one of the women was saying how when she has children she wouldn’t like the idea of looking after them when they’re little because she “didn’t like toddlers.” She insisted she would put them in daycare for the first few years and “let someone else deal with them until they start school.” Typical fucking attitude of a lot of women and this is why we don’t have any use for such women; we want and need a woman who’ll have kids and look after them, not some lazy career gal who, on the off-chance she manages to pop out a kid, will just chuck ’em in a daycare centre.

This is why career women make shit wives; the only thing us men can’t do on our own is have babies, and if we’re going to be providers (which we will have to be, even if we marry a working woman) we want someone to look after our babies, namely their mother, not a daycare centre worker. Hence, those men who are still willing to marry will avoid career women because they make such utterly shit wives and bad mothers to our children. All the screeching from female Forbes readers at Noer’s infamous article won’t change our opinion on this.

What’s also annoying is that the government is only too happy to fund daycare so that women can opt out of having to do the awful sexist traditional role of raising babies. Subsidising childcare in the UK is costing taxpayers hundreds of millions a year. Yet what if us men don’t want to do our sexist traditional role of providing for babies? Not a chance. Pay up child-support or have baliffs kick your door in, or your passport confiscated, or carted off to prison.

The government is only too happy to spend taxpayer’s money to free women from their old traditional duties, and is only too happy to force us men to fulfill our old traditional duties.

Then again, this is of no surprise to those of us sensible enough to see that feminism was never, ever about equality, but about freeing women from having any obligations and responsibilities whilst lumbering us men with even more.

posted by Duncan Idaho @ 6:53 PM
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At 7:19 PM, Anonymous said…

This is why career women make shit wives; the only thing us men can’t do on our own is have babies, and if we’re going to be providers (which we will have to be, even if we marry a working woman) we want someone to look after our babies, namely their mother, not a daycare centre worker.

Very well spoken. especially I do not want a wife who just gets up to 4 children. I want a wife who gets 20 children and I want to marry her when she is 16.

The government is only too happy to spend taxpayer’s money to free women from their old traditional duties, and is only too happy to force us men to fulfill our old traditional duties.

Most people do not think this way: they try to help women.
But you are right of course.
The same happens with abortion: women decide if they have an abortion or if not – the father lives with the consequences, he has no choice.
You cannot tell the woman “You will not kill your child – it is MY son!”
It does not help.

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At 7:40 PM, unpleasant bitter git said…

I see there’s an article in the Daily Mail which extols the virtues of motherhood for a change. But it still trots out a lot of the old crap as well.

In the comments section you’ve still got women saying things like this:

“At 31 I know that motherhood isn’t a million miles away, yet the thought of depriving myself of my independence and all the things I love has been really depressing me. I felt as though my life would be over and I would be forced to take a career break, rely on my husband and become a needy woman forced to talk about breast feeding all day. Not exactly an exciting prospect.

However, underneath this feeling I have known having a famiily is something I want to do when I am ready and something I would like to do whole heartedly.”

She’s 31 and doesn’t know if she’s ready yet!!!!

Talk about delusional.

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At 7:58 PM, patriarchal-phoenix said…

Shhhh, Duncan, your logic and reason will hurt the feelings of the feminists. 🙂

Preach on!

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At 8:03 PM, Anonymous said…

My last girlfriend was in her mid 30’s and wanted children so i had to let her go.
Divorce and family courts have put me right off. Chatting to three married blokes who had kids last week and all said they would never marry again.
It is sad to think that some poor soul might end up giving her a kid and then spend the rest of his days regretting and payi g for it.
The deals a bad one for decent men. If you want to be a bloke who screws around and does a runner, now is the best time possible.

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At 8:03 PM, Lisa said…

Duncan, as a woman who waited until 32 to get married and 34 to have her first child, there are noble reasons for that choice. I did not want to go into a marriage with debt. I didn’t want to start having children with debt. Those career years gave me an opportunity to get rid of my college loans and the credit card debt I accumulated while in school. By the way, I was using my credit cards for rent…not purses and make-up. This and working 2 jobs.

There are women out there who are making this choice because they want to go into a marriage on equal footing and without debt. There are some women who want to be able to contribute assets to a marriage so it isn’t all about what a leech they are to their husbands. Men will make a case about how women are out to bleed them dry, yet complain when a woman makes an effort to contribute her fair share.

I don’t think many of you here are hardcore enough to say “women shouldn’t go to college”…”they don’t need a degree to have babies and be a good wife.” Hopefully you can see the logic in my decision.

I do agree women need to be realistic about biology. There are limits.

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At 8:59 PM, Blah! said…

If Sue comments on this, go tell her to…

SHUT THE HELL UP!

If people wanted her opinion, we’ll squeeze her head for it.

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At 9:08 PM, Anonymous said…

I can’t believe I’ve actually found a post I disagree with.

My wife and I married in our mid 30’s and immediately had two perfect children with no difficulty whatsoever.

We’re lucky, I know. And we didn’t want to press our luck with the Down’s Syndrome thing by having more. While we were having our second, the doc told my wife that the risk at her age (37) was exactly 1 in 89. Yikes!

But I’m glad it worked out this way. We can give our kids and each other much more than we could have in our 20’s.

We can afford to have a nice house and have my wife stay home at the same time. My 28-year-old baby sister and her husband can’t do that.

And having been fully grown and matured when we married, our marriage has been much more solid than it probably would have been otherwise. My wife understands what responsibility is, which is more than you can say for most 20-somethings.

Just to let you know that opting for the nymphet isn’t always the best way to go. If nothing else, she’ll be a lot more likely to pack up your kids and move them in with a new guy.

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At 10:35 PM, Anonymous said…

Men will make a case about how women are out to bleed them dry, yet complain when a woman makes an effort to contribute her fair share.

“Women bleeding men dry” is a common coinsurance making a “fair contribution” by a wage, etc. is not equivalent. Give me one example of a man who went to the divorce courts and took half or more of his ex-wife’s assets. Never happens.

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At 10:53 PM, Anonymous said…

I don’t think many of you here are hardcore enough to say “women shouldn’t go to college”…”they don’t need a degree to have babies and be a good wife.” Hopefully you can see the logic in my decision.

Certainly, women should not be pushed into academia nearly as much as they have been. Fact is, higher learning is wasted on most of them and in the process, society pays the price for allowing this tremendous economic inefficiency to persist for as long as it has.

Never forget that the “progressive” (feminist) illusion which the west has adopted in the last century is in its entirety financed (i.e. subsidized/paid for) with money that was earned through hard work by prior, functional generations. Let us see how long this fantasy endures once the money runs out (which it is just about to).

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At 11:00 PM, Peter said…

Hi!

You know it’s getting bad for women when they hit on GAY men. There’s a female attorney in the firm where I’m employed, and she’s thirty-five, unmarried and childless. She’s attractive, but sorry, I lost that desire after my divorce. She’s asked me out twice. She has Baby Rabies in a very big way. She KNOWS I’m in a committed relationship with a MAN. Don’t believe it when they say women won’t marry down. I barely squeaked by and made $38,000 last year as a secretary for an attorney. She’s a senior partner in this firm, and since I occasionally have access to payroll issues, I know she made in excess of $400,000 last year. I know I’m not ugly by any means, but HELLOOOO! I’m GAY! G-A-Y!

I’ve also been hit on by secretaries, a paralegal, vendors and a client. They KNOW I’m gay as I never try and conceal it. It’s not flattering when they hit on me, and I do get a certain amount of satisfaction reminding women that I’m GAY. I think I’m a personal challenge to many of them. Most of them know I was married, and they seem to want to bring me back to heterosexuality. Or they just want babies. But, that ship has sailed, sister. I get daily reminders in my job as to why I could NEVER be involved with women again.

I know this is a Blog for straight men, and I hope you don’t mind my being here. I work for a living helping attorney’s defend divorcing men, and am very supportive of all of you guys. I was there once, myself. I promise I won’t ask you to pick up the soap.

Peter

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At 11:52 PM, Other said…

Peter said…I know this is a Blog for straight men, and I hope you don’t mind my being here.

Well, being as one of my best friends is gay and dislikes women in general because he asserts they treat men like shit all I can say is welcome. And I’d like to hear more of what you have to say in future thank you.

As for women hitting on you for a baby! All I can say is that if you did impregnate a woman, you’d still be liable for child support regardless of the fact your gay and regardless of what the woman said in advance.

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At 12:09 AM, yosei said…

Hey, a gay man’s a man. I don’t see the big deal.

Then again, a mangina is still technically a ‘man’, so we’re in trouble there 😉

-patriarch from the far east

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At 12:39 AM, VoodooJock said…

Lisa,

There are many women who claim to want a lot of things, are interested in men’s issues, want nothing more than a house and a family, and a bunch of other nonsense, however, the likelihood that they actually follow through on those words is rare. So you’re one of the rare ones, goody, whoop-de-doo, your husband found someone who isn’t a parasite.

As for the rest of us, who still have to sort through the turds to find the tootsie-roll, we’ve heard your bullshit before and it doesn’t fly. We’re down in the trenches of this war. We’re seeing the kind of women that are out there, and to put it bluntly, the ones you describe are about as likely to be found as the 7 cities of Cibolo, the Fountain of Youth, or El Dorado.

So do us a favor, spare us your asinine attempt to tell us that the small minority is representative of the whole. Cease to use your life as an example, as frankly, we do not give a rat’s ass. And we’re not falling for that “Gee sucker, just keep your nose to the grindstone and your effort will pay off eventually.” horseshit anymore.

You want to help? Go tell those asshole “sisters” of yours, the rest of the female population, that men are tired of being a female pack mule that’s supposed to give them a free ride to whatever fantasy world they have in mind.

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At 2:41 AM, Anonymous said…

To Peter

I don’t know about the rest of the readers, but I would say that you are allowed here. Maybe you can give us a different point of view on what men have to go through in the western world.

JFSD

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At 2:43 AM, Anonymous said…

Duncan,

I imagine, in about 15 more years, when the first large generation of women that had a significant percentage that went childless (30% of German females are childless), will end feminism.

How will they do this? With their mouths. They will be sad, old, and childless. Those women who were only children themselves with no siblings will not even have nieces and nephews. They have the internet and discussion forums. In the anonymity of chatrooms, I imagine they will warn others not to fall for the media/entertainment/mis-educational complex’s lies about feminism.

Rarely does and old maid (who was not a bull dyke or really pitifully unattractive) NOT regret going childless. Women who will not settle down for a decent man before its too late have from around 45 to 85 to regret it. Thats a long time to be alone.

The first generation that fell for this shit, will be the one to end it. Watch and see my friend.

Keep up the good fight for whats Right in the world as God made it.

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At 2:46 AM, mfsob said…

I’m not saying that it’s a waste to send more and more women to college to get that much vaunted “higher education.”

But …

I AM saying that most of them, probably more than 75 percent, “waste” that chance by doing one of three things, almost without exception:

1) Getting a degree in the medical field, being trained at great expense and effort, and then dropping out to have kids, usually returning, at best, to part time doctoring. You “empowered women” WASTE hundreds of millions of our tax dollars every year when you pull this crap. It’s supposed to be a career, not something you only do when you feel like it.

2) Entering into an already crowded field, like lawyers, where you can only get ahead because of gender-norming or some such pseudo scientific bullshit – whether you are actually qualified to do the job or not.

3) Going into one of these “pink collar” careers like human resources or social work, which, when measured up against the rest of it, contribute fuck all to society as a whole.

College is an agreement between you and society, ladies – society pays for you to get educated, and it expects a return on its investment. Men intuitively understand this and take up the challenge with no complaint, they just get the work done and go on to better things around them.

Women, self-centered and short-sighted creatures that they are, piss it away. Every. Single. Time.

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At 2:48 AM, A Canadian Liberal Against Feminism said…

Peter, you made my night man.

And Duncan, brilliant again.

Anyone get the impression that women are learning that having a family is never guaranteed, and they don’t like it?

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At 5:45 AM, Anonymous said…

Peter-we have nothing against gay men. On the contrary, I find that most of the amusing workplace stories involve women chasing after gay men. I’ve noticed that all these gay men share a universal dislike of these women, women don’t seem to realize that gay men tend to have men as friends, and unlike women, are actual friends with these guys. As a result, when a woman in the workplace screws over a gay man’s straight friend, generally a gay man is just as annoyed if not more so than his friend is.

I’m not gay but, for some reason for the most part a lot of women drop the feminist act with me. Even outside of biology, older women (30s/40s etc) who are feminist otherwise have told me that they would have preferred to have children when they were younger, not because of fertility or anything, but because they “had so much more energy” in their early 20s. I’ve had other women my age confess to me that their desire was always to be the trophy wife, and they really don’t want their careers. I think these women are being honest with me, and it’s feminist programming that changes their instincts. A woman without feminism is still a hysterical easily manipulated creature, but will probably want children at a young age.

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At 8:53 AM, Pete Patriarch said…

I know this is a Blog for straight men, and I hope you don’t mind my being here. I work for a living helping attorney’s defend divorcing men, and am very supportive of all of you guys. I was there once, myself. I promise I won’t ask you to pick up the soap.

This is a movement for everyone who is affected by feminism. Without going into soppy multiculturalism, being a man hurts you even if you never get involved with a woman, although it certainly lowers your chances of getting embroiled in a legal battle etc. But all it takes is one pointed finger and your life is ruined under the current feminist judicial system.

Thanks for doing a good deed, not many of us can claim that our work helps people in such a visceral and real way.

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At 9:51 AM, Anonymous said…

Peter,

I grew up in an anti-gay time and having known no better, was anti-gay myself.
I am old enough to have a mind of my own and whilst have no inclinations towards homosexuality myself, i would rather my son be gay than fall in love with a feminist.
How many dads out there can say that?

Respect to you for helping out men who have been through the mill.

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At 10:10 AM, Nilk said…

One of the big problems when it comes to declining fertility is that 20-something girls don’t want to hear it.

It’s like they close their eyes and stick their fingers in their ears.

Younger girlfriends of mine who want to have babies nearly fall off their perch when I suggest they start thinking seriously about getting married and having a “family” before 30.

First of all, there’s the getting married concept, then there’s the “family” concept.

It’s like you’re speaking in tongues.

When you point out that from about 27 onwards their fertility declines, you can see the wheels start turning.

Then comes the bit about me having my daughter at 34. My response is always that if I was doing things over, I’d be having kids at 24 – the body just does not spring back like it used to.

With Downs and things like that, they are more likely when the woman is over 30 for a first time pregnancy, which is another incentive for them to get pregnant young.

And don’t get me started on that silly bimbo who wants to have kids then put them in creche for the first few years.

Way to guarantee yourself perpetual warfare in their adolescence, sister.

I don’t know how other older women reading this feel, but for years my idea has been that between the ages of 15 and 27 (or thereabouts) a girl’s brains leak out of her ears then gradually grow back.

I look at myself between those ages and I certainly wouldn’t call myself the sharpest tool in the shed.

There are exceptions, of course, but they seem to be few and far between.

Which, of course, means that for the blokes out there you still have a lot of idiocy to attempt to sift through.

If you do at all.

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At 10:31 AM, Boyd-Boyd said…

Very interesting, and we appreciate your thoughts, but isn’t their a blog like Rump Ramgers Anonymous for you?

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At 11:21 AM, Anonymous said…

It’s surprising that no-one has mentioned population control/reduction.

Older women are less fertile, and are more likely to give birth to ‘defective babies’ (who themselves will probably not have children).

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At 1:10 PM, Peter The Fruit said…

Yay!

Thank you so much for the warm welcome! We do share much in common, ya know. I don’t like women, and you don’t like women. This is a basic, fundamental sign of:

WISDOM

COMRADERE (Did I spell that right?)

Or as my bo says “The hatred of women is the beginning of wisdom” (He was burned so bad by his wife, but that’s a story for another time)

I really don’t hate anybody at all. I musn’t and I won’t. As a gay man, I have seen so much hatred (not seeking sympathy) and I don’t wnat to go down that lonely, dark road.

No.

Although, there isn’t anything saying I can’t be truthful, and if I’m gonna be truthful, then I will tell you that women are NOT nice people, and NOOOOOO, I don’t like ’em. I don’t hate ’em, and I wouldn’t hurt one of ’em, but I don’t like ’em. Actually, I think it would be easier to spell out “them”, but I was trying to be cute. And I am. Sort of.

First, let me tell you about myself and my philosophy of life and relationships. You may or may not agree, but I’m not a hostile queer. I’m happy in my own skin, and I love to agree to disagree. I honor other opinions and try to see the good in everyone that is rational, kind and doesn’t bleed every month. Oh, bugs. That sounds nasty, but you know what I mean.

I don’t subscribe to the belief which is so common in the gay community that I was “born gay”. There is a serious debate in the gay community that is, I think, created as a defense mechanism against homophobia. It’s easier to say you were born gay than to say “I chose this lifestyle by my own free will!” I’m in a minority, I think, but I accept the belief in the bisexual continuum (spelling?) I honestly believe that everyone, male or female, is bi to one degree or another. I think this can be influenced by many things, including family, religious training, society, chemical or genetic differences and possibly lots of other things. Sometimes people just get so hurt they give up on the other sex in anger and frustration. But the potential is there. But if you don’t agree with me, I won’t like you any less, or respect you any less. It’s okay to have differing viewpoints. I have so much self-confidence and internal bliss, I don’t feel threatened or angry when others don’t agree with me. I just ask that if we do discuss the issue, please don’t be threatened by me. Don’t be angry. Don’t hate me.

I won’t hate you.

I don’t seek converts to the gay lifestyle. I’m not that insecure. I am furious with those who pursue and molest children, or rape others. I believe in a lifestyle of love and respect for other humans.

I spent most of my life with no gay feelings, at least none that were memorable. I mean, there is so much discussion of the issue any more, everyone wonders in the back of their mind what the attraction is, but I never walked around lusting after men. I still don’t. Many gays are like uncivilized brutes who lust after anything in pants. Just like many straights. I’m not that way, nor is my significant other. I had never been with a man before we met, and he had only been with one other guy. Hence, we don’t have Herpes or HIV. Yay!

I don’t believe in sleeping around. It’s a death sentence. My bo, as I affectionately call him (actually, he’s Leonard) is an RN. So, I have access to some information that might surprise and terrify you with regards to women. Ask me anything you like, and if I don’t know, I’ll ask Leonard.

Many of you will cringe at the thought of a man being with a man. That’s okay. But it’s far more than the sex. I am an separatist. This is a more advanced form of the Marriage Strike, which I am proudly part of the gay chapter thereof. Baaad grammar, but it’s 4:30 in the morn, and I haven’t been to bed yet. At least not for sleeping anyway. Yikes!

I don’t hang out with women. I don’t care for them. I don’t like a lot of men, but you have a better chance of knowing where you stand with men than with women.

Women lie. Often.

Some of you might ask if Leonard and I are in love. Well, well. Love. What is love? How do you define it? I think I loved my wife with a passion. It was that kind of blinding, unreasoning, smoke from the gonads emotion that leaves you open to the almost certain hear-t ripping you get when married. To a woman.

Do I feel that way with Leonard? Honestly, no. I like him. A lot. I respect him. We have fun doing things. The sex…is good. And frequent.

I loved my wife. I quickly found I didn’t like her. At all. I didn’t respect her. We fought constantly. The sex was… lousy, then gone.

She was the angriest, cruelest human being I have ever known, and I still have brutal nightmares about her. Her screaming and violence. Throwing dishes. Kicks to the groin. Slaps to the face. Name calling. Questioning my inability to maintain an erection after her screaming sessions.

Funny, and not to offend, I have no problem with erectile difficulties now. Sometimes several times a day. With HER, I thought I was impotent. With Leonard, I feel no pressure. If it’s good for us, fine. If not, tomorrow is another day. I don’t have to PROVE anything in bed. If the moment is right, it will happen. It frequently does, sometimes several times a day, but if not, so what?

I’m not JUDGED.

Now, on to my job. Note I say JOB. I am not an attorney. If you need legal advice, you need to seek professional counsel. I am unqualified to offer specific legal advice. I’m just a secretary, and a fairly new one at that. I plan on being a paralegal some day, but not now. I’m still trying to get over the past. Right now, I really don’t know very much about the profession, other than what I learned when I went through my divorce. I think that’s what attracted me to my present position. I wanted to help, if only in a small way.

But, I DO have a lot of stories to tell. Mostly, I type, file, answer the phone and set up appointments. I am able to occasionally be present during some legal proceedings, and occasionally I get to sit by during court proceedings. I talk to men who are going through the divorce mill. I let them cry on my shoulder- literally.

I have learned one thing, and when I say it, you might think I am going back on what I said about hatred. If it appears that way, I apologize. I don’t have all of my marbles in one place yet, and I’m still trying to become the person I want to be. But, if I could offer one piece of advice with all of my heart, it would be this-

Never, ever, under any circumstance, trust any woman at any time. EVER!

Is that hate? A woman would say yes, but I only feel such sadness when I write it. I hate what women DO, and how they LIVE, but I hope I don’t hate them. I don’t want to be like them, for what is a woman but HATE? I never knew my mother. She abandoned my father and my sisters when I was a baby. She was hate. My sisters, both of them, were, and are hateful. All of the girls I dated…hated. My wife was pure hatred. Leonard’s wife was the same. The wives of the men who pass through my place of employment are full of hate. I see them. The looks in their eyes. I watch them during meetings. I see them in court. Hatred and more hatred.

I must interject.

Don’t feel sorry for me, bless your hearts. I’m okay, and my life is going great. I’m okay.

I want to help YOU, if I can. In some small way. I will share stories sometimes, or just prance in and offer my sage advice.

Please don’t feel threatened by my sexuality. I have hopefully logged on as Peter The Fruit. I am not defensive about my gayness, and I’m utterly unhostile to those who cringe at the thought of what happens in my bedroom. That’s cool.

I can honestly say that the thought of a vagina isn’t the most exciting thing I can think of, either.

Signing off for now. I’m pooped.

Peter The Fruit

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At 2:16 PM, Lisa said…

As for the rest of us, who still have to sort through the turds to find the tootsie-roll, we’ve heard your bullshit before and it doesn’t fly. We’re down in the trenches of this war. We’re seeing the kind of women that are out there, and to put it bluntly, the ones you describe are about as likely to be found as the 7 cities of Cibolo, the Fountain of Youth, or El Dorado.

So do us a favor, spare us your asinine attempt to tell us that the small minority is representative of the whole. Cease to use your life as an example, as frankly, we do not give a rat’s ass. And we’re not falling for that “Gee sucker, just keep your nose to the grindstone and your effort will pay off eventually.” horseshit anymore.

Voodoojock, I don’t doubt men have more than their share of turds to sort through. I’ve watched many a male friend come out the loser in an ugly break-up or divorce. It’s hard to be friends with some of my male friends’ significant others because I can see the writing on the wall. What frustrates me is why my male friends keep chasing after the same tail. Some of my female friends will remain single (and dare I guess virgins) because they aren’t worthy of the chase. They aren’t gorgeous, they aren’t rail thin and they are painfully shy. I think they have tootsie roll potential. They are shelved because the turds are prettier, more dynamic and more outgoing…by design, I think. And just like turds, men are crawling all over them like flies.

It really is of no consequence to me whether you do or do not give a rat’s ass about my life or my input. Your use of “we” suggests you are speaking on behalf of the entire board. Some here have received me warmly. Speaking for yourself is great. Share your opinion of me and my words. Assigning everyone your opinion isn’t necessary. They can speak for themselves if they so choose. I’m pretty comfortable with my choices and what I have to offer. I’m not the enemy. I see the truths in many of the concerns voiced here. I do think it’s pointless to fall into a trap of believing too many generalizations. I didn’t say my situation represented the whole. I shared my situation to show the other side of the coin. Perhaps the other side of the coin is of no interest to you. Oh well. Also of no consequence to me. Whether you keep your nose to the grindstone or simply give up is a personal decision only you can make. I do know the feeling of believing there are no good options out there. I had to sort through my share of turds to find my tootsie roll.

By the by, a few have suggested women should simply marry young and forget about investing in a career and such. The challenge with this is few men are interested in marrying young. Just as posters have suggested women what time to enjoy their freedom, sew their oats and such, the same is true of men. The only way for this concept to work is for young women to marry older men. It seems to me the marriages that have an older man marrying a younger woman are more prone to the problems expressed here.

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At 3:15 PM, Lisa said…

“Women bleeding men dry” is a common coinsurance making a “fair contribution” by a wage, etc. is not equivalent. Give me one example of a man who went to the divorce courts and took half or more of his ex-wife’s assets. Never happens.

I totally agree. A big part is because of unfair divorce laws. A previous poster also noted on another subject how women with assets go to greater lengths to protect them. Take Britney Spears. As dumb as she is, she was smart with her pre-nup.

I still think women with assets should be more appealing than women without. It is more likely they are marrying a man for reasons other than finding a sugar daddy to take to the cleaners eventually. I didn’t need to get married for financial purposes. I wanted to get married because I found someone I felt I could enjoy a long term partnership with.

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At 4:23 PM, Mamonaku187 said…

Peter,

Whats good my man?

I had planned on writing a piece on my blog about Gay men and the Mens Rights Movement, but you beat me to it.

I agree with the good Brothers of this blog that you are most welcome, and we need multiple points of view in our struggle against the Fempire!!

Peace.

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At 5:06 PM, Cowhead said…

Lisa,

I don’t think most men would have a problem with their girlfriends/wives contributing financially, as they can greatly relieve the stress that would come with being the sole breadwinner. The problem does not lie there. Many career women who marry use their careers in a harmful way – like claiming they “sacrificed their career” later in divorce court in order to rob her husband of more of his assets.

Many of them also view the whole “career thing” as a competition, so they compete with their husbands to see who can make more dough. I guess it would be fine if it’s friendly, but most don’t end well because men are looking for companions, not competitors in women. Evidence has also shown that career women also tend to be unhappy or bitter and are more likely to divorce. They are also older, less fertile, and throw all that “Strong independent woman” crap in your face (boasting in this way is not attractive in the slightest).

Finally, nearly all career women went to college universities, which are infested with feminism. Many of them come out of college bitter and express anger towards men, as they are surrounded almost daily with male-bashing.

In conclusion, if colleges weren’t so extreme PC and feminist-influenced, if career women paid more attention to their fertility, if women who are looking for a relationship would be complementary and not competitive, if men weren’t saddled with the expectation of being the primary provider and looked down upon if they aren’t, and if divorce wasn’t so devastating, I’d think you’d find that men wouldn’t mind that extra paycheck coming in every month. That sure is a lot of ifs, and change is unlikely to come in the near future. The whole point is, a woman with assets is not a less attractive option because of her assets, but due to a plethora of other reasons and risks.

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At 5:21 PM, Anonymous said…

To Lisa
I believe that the man should be 5 to 12 years older than his wife, in any case not more than fifteen. The marriages where the men are 7, 8, 11 years older all work great and are very happy. This is of course only anecdotal evidence. Men shouldn’t expect to marry twenty years younger women, but ten years should be the norm , not the exception, because aging, maturity, expectations, roles and biological clocks are different. Men are attracted the most to women between 15-25, and women to still young, but established men between 25-35.

Yes, so I believe that women should marry in their late teens, early twenties. This of course also implies that high school girls should be allowed to date young men in their twenties (not middle aged men, also young men over 30 have no business with schoolgirls. I also believe that women should work, but the right moment is when the kids are reaching elementary school age, not before. Germany has right now a fertility rate of 1.3 children per woman, around 1/3 of German women are barren (and most likely will be because of age).

I understand that women, like men, nowadays want to extend their adolescence until they are thirty. This is a luxury most men can take. But few women realize that it will be much more difficult to get a men to commit as soon as they reach their late twenties. I know two women (one 27, single mother, the other 31)who complain that when they were 16-20 years old they had a few marriage propositions but they declined that they wanted to have more fun and felt to young. But now they have only suitors who are looking for a sportsfuck.

Women don’t realize the price they are paying for delaying marriage and extending their adolescence. Not because your 30 year old cousin got married it means that you will be too.

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At 7:59 PM, Peter The Fruit said…

Oh, dear Lisa. What you say sounds so good. Before I married my wife, she was anti-feminist. Sweet, loving, sexual. So sexual. She was every man’s dream. She portrayed herself as you do. Fair, logical, reasonable. I was impressed. So much so that I married her, in spite of having been warned by other men to never get married. I knew she was the exception.

The DAY of the wedding, she started to change. The night of the wedding should have been memorable. It was memorable, all right. One long fight about- I don’t even remember what started it. There were good days that followed, but they became increasingly rare until one day they just stopped. She gave up any pretense of being nice, and proceeded to do everything in her power to hurt me. The only thing that saved me during the eventual divorce is that we had no babies, I had filed numerous complaints about domestic violence, and we had no real assets. I had nothing to take, and she made a lot more money than I did. But, if she had any way to make me pay for whatever she hates me for, believe me, I would be paying. I just didn’t have anything she could steal, other than my happiness and the love I once naively had for women.

Let me illustrate what I’m saying. I’m a fairly recent transplant to Phoenix, Arizona. Here’s a bit of trivia to entertain you. Phoenix is an amazing place. After WW2, it had about 50,000 people. It was a mere hole in the road. Then it started to grow. There are now close to 1.5 million in the city proper, and just a hair under 4 million in the metro area. Except for Las Vegas, I know of no city that has grown from nothing so fast to be so huge. Everywhere you look, and as far as the eye can see, you have mile after mile of neighborhoods. I think that they said that in twenty years, there will be over seven million people here. Astounding. Right out in the middle of the desert. Where we’ll get water is another issue.

The city and it’s surrounding and frequently massive ‘burbs engulf and pass around many mountains that are now parks. Right in the middle of the city, and completely surrounded by neighborhoods, you have several MOUNTAINS that are entirely rural, and they are quite large. So, I sometimes go hiking or bicycling there (and you didn’t think I peddled my ass around town?)

One hot day as I was sitting down to relax while hiking the trails, I heard something I had never heard before, and hope I never hear again. Off to my right, and not more than twenty feet away, sat basking in the sun the largest rattlesnake I have ever seen. Actually, it was the only rattlesnake I have ever seen. At the time, it looked large enough to be a Gaboon Viper. This beast was huge, or so it seemed at the time. I was busy trying to keep from wetting myself, so my memory may be playing tricks on me. But I remember thinking “Why didnt I see it there before I sat down?”

It was big, and right there for all to see. But rattlesnakes can blend into the background. They are nicely camouflaged, so it can be hard to see them sometimes. Until they rattle, and by then it might be too late. I should have been on the alert at all times. I had been warned about the rattlesnakes in these parks. I didn’t go there completely unawares. But, like the young man who walks down the aisle, I minimized the danger in my mind, and wasn’t on guard. If I had been bitten, I probably would have died, or at the least, lost a limb. I quietly moved further away from the reptile, and sat there watching it. Let me share some of the thoughts that were going through my head at the time.

I pondered the similarities between women and rattlesnakes. They are cold-blooded. Unpredictable. Slimy (I dare you to prove me wrong on that one!) Able to blend into their surroundings. They sometimes strike without warning. They are incapable of emotions like love. They know nothing of mercy or reason. Only a fool would marry one of them.

That was actually what I was thinking at the time. I sat there in the shade for I don’t know how long, both dreading it and admiring it’s ability to survive so ruthlessly. The comparisons between women and venomous snakes are quite appropriate. On one hand, I recognize the destructive effects of having any kind of relationship with a woman, but privately I marvel at her ability to survive and flourish at the expense of all around her. Like a shark, she is the ultimate predator.

Eventually, I had to leave, but I had a strong desire to warn others about the presence of the snake. But, what is Arizona, but snakes? It has more species of rattlesnake than anywhere else in the world, about a dozen varieties or so. It’s weird how the mind works. By then I was standing, watching it rattle furiously, and the thought came into my mind about the women I had encountered in Phoenix. I wanted to warn men about them. They were equally destructive, but would men listen? Or would they naively stumble along not heeding the warnings as I did, both when hiking and marrying? How many men have been harmed by rattlesnakes and women when it could have been avoided by simply listening to the warnings?

I was lying in bed that night with nothing but my trouser snake to keep me company (sorry about that) and I pondered this. It’s easy to label women as EVIL, and to the civilized male mind, they ARE evil, or so we perceive it to be. But, are they really? Are women not simply acting in the way nature designed them to be for breeding? Would that not explain a woman’s lack of any ability to love or to be loyal or faithful? Is she not just behaving in a way that maximizes her ability to breed efficiently? Is she not just an efficient, ruthless breeding machine?

I’m just throwing this idea out to spark conversation. If true, it would explain much about their actions. If true, it would or should cause a man to realize that marriage to such an efficient predator would be unwise. Like the black widow, she WILL dispose of you once the nest has been established. Never forget this. A man is always disposable to every woman.

But, snakes alive, my experience did cause me to purchase a beautiful California King snake. It’s an albino, and it often sits there staring at me with those reddish eyes. I developed a fondness for King snakes because they are generally immune to rattlesnake venom, and in the wild, depending upon size differences, they like to kill and consume rattlesnakes. I find that appealing.

The King snake is like Duncan Idaho and other men who take the time to fight against those who would destroy you.

I must go,as it’s waxing time for my beautiful body.

Peter The Fruit

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At 12:43 AM, Schpengle Carrot-Tripe said…

erm, theres homophobic and theres not interested. Nice to see you posting Pete, all input is good if constructive, but do You think you could keep the bedroom references etc to yourself. I for one am really not interested and , really, really dont wish to know about that side of your personal life.
Apart from that, welcome aboard I guess, Dunc has posted you and hes the boss………Just as long as you are not Sue’s sister.
😐

ok, bye
Schplip schplop

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At 12:55 AM, Anonymous said…

Peter,

Get a hold of yourself. Being gay doesn’t mean you have to fall all over the first straight people who welcome you into their club. It’s undignified.

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At 1:05 AM, Duncan Idaho said…

Of course you’re welcome Pete The Fruit. Incidentally, you could start an anti-feminist blog of your own and have fun when a load of fembots charge over and start shrieking “Criticising feminism eh? You must be teh gay!1“, and after confirming such accusations you can enjoy the amusing silence from the feminists; after all, accusing any man who doesn’t agree with them of being gay is about the only “argument” they have. And as it’s only shaming language, they known it only has a chance of working on heterosexual guys.

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At 2:27 AM, Lisa said…

Cowhead, I completely understand what you say about the ‘competition thing’. I fell into that with my husband for a bit. My husband makes a good living. I made a decent living, but not nearly as much money as him. I felt fine at the beginning of our marriage when I was bringing home a reasonable chunk of our income. When I went to working part time after the birth of our daughter, I started feeling like dead weight. I had no choice but to leave my work as my daughter developed a birth mark on her lip and could not take a bottle for the longest time. I was her only option for meals. My husband would come home and proudly show me his pay stub or a huge bonus check and I would interpret it to mean “look at how much more I bring to the home than you.” Tension started to build and I started working ridiculous hours when I could be away from my daughter to keep up with him. I started getting pissy, which isn’t my style. Luckily I was smart enough to talk about how competitive I was starting to feel with him. We got it all out in the open and things are good now. Turns out he was showing me these big bonus checks because he thought it would help me not to worry about our finances while caring for our daughter. Had we not talked about it, it would have festered. I can see the risk of that damaging a marriage if left unchecked.

Anon@5:21. I agree with you partly. I do feel men are better husbands when they marry in their mid 30’s. Since I was 25 I dated men over the age of 34. 34 seemed to be the magic age where men were ready to be a little more serious. As to that 34 year old man marrying a 20 or 21 year old…what a bore. It just seems like 20 year old women (girls) have so little to talk about. So little to contribute. I’m sure someone will chime in with the benefits of a woman with little to talk about. Joke away.

Peter the Fruit…interesting rattlesnake analogy. I agree some are just this way. Not all. Honestly, sometimes I think women are better at spotting the rattlesnakes then men are. You say your wife changed on her wedding night, I’m guessing there were some signs before hand. Perhaps they were subtle, but they were there. I think first and foremost men need to look at the friends of their mates. Birds of a feather fly together. Perhaps the one you are with feels the need to put on an act for you (to seal the deal), but her friends don’t. They can be very telling. I also say fair warning to any woman who is all about a wedding. When china patterns, bridesmaid dresses and flower designs are important, warning bells should be ringing. My husband and I had a $60 justice of the peace wedding (and no I wasn’t pregnant) and went for pancakes afterwards. It’s impossible to fight after a cheap wedding, good breakfast food and a life changing event without nagging relatives.

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At 2:57 AM, Lisa said…

The DAY of the wedding, she started to change. The night of the wedding should have been memorable. It was memorable, all right. One long fight about- I don’t even remember what started it. There were good days that followed, but they became increasingly rare until one day they just stopped. She gave up any pretense of being nice, and proceeded to do everything in her power to hurt me. The only thing that saved me during the eventual divorce is that we had no babies, I had filed numerous complaints about domestic violence, and we had no real assets. I had nothing to take, and she made a lot more money than I did. But, if she had any way to make me pay for whatever she hates me for, believe me, I would be paying. I just didn’t have anything she could steal, other than my happiness and the love I once naively had for women.

By the by, Peter the Fruit I don’t suppose your being gay had anything to do with any hate or anger on her part. I’m one of those who believes you are born gay. You don’t turn into a homosexual after years of abuse by the opposite sex. This probably sounds snarky, but if you married a woman knowing you were a gay man, it doesn’t leave you a lot of wiggle room to talk about deceptions before marriage and such. That, my fruity friend, puts you in the same category as the rattlesnake.

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At 7:30 AM, Anonymous said…

Notice how Lisa is able to (without any sign of conscience) make an unsubstantiated accusation against Peter (he was gay before marriage) Then apply a verdict – you’re no better than a rattle snake either – all on the basis of her opinion!

Lisa do you have any evidence to back up your assertion? AT ALL???

If not you owe Peter an apology!

All men should have to read Lisa’s last post for an understanding of how women abuse the legal system, and apply the terms rape and abuse.

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At 1:06 PM, Anonymous said…

Sorry lisa, you are mistaken.

Read some history. Ethnographies of matriarchal societies show increased homosexuality and rejection of women by men as they lose status. It has nothing to do with hatred of women.

Look at it objectively. Men want companionship and physical pleasure even more than they want children. If the transaction cost of these things with women is too high, more men will opt for mutual masturbation with a man or gay sex. The numbers of guys doing this are relatively small, but it is happening; and guess what? The guys who do it seem to be happy with the decision.

It says something about modern women if men will not marry them and some will turn to men for pleasure.

The heart of the problem is that the sex known to be the most illogical and emotional holds all the legal advantages.

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At 3:02 PM, khankrumthebulgar said…

Many years ago the Actor Robin Williams made a movie. It was about a Literature Teacher at an exclusive Prep School. He taught his young Male Students that it is Love that makes men become Doctors, Lawyers, and Business Leaders. That Men strive for Love and happiness with the “right” woman. It was called “Dead Poets Society”. It was schmalzy “syrupy Sweet”.

But there was a truth there. Men have sought pleasant, agreeable, sweet Women to share our tribulations in this “Vale of Tears”. The harsh truth is that Feminism is turning Women masculine and Men feminine. As Scientists state that Testosterone levels in Men have been declining.

Men don’t want Masculine Women who are our competitors. Women fail to ask the question. What does a Man want? Our wants and our needs have become simply irrelevant in this sick and debased culture.

Do Not breed with Skanky Women. The Human race will not go extinct if you don’t have children. It is irresponsible to bring children up in this culture. It truly pains me to write this. As I am a Grandfather and Father myself. I agree with Fred Reed, you are under no obligation to support this madness. Focus on your happiness.

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At 3:39 PM, Lisa said…

Notice Anon at 7:30 I said “IF you married a woman knowing you are gay”. And IF indeed he did, that does qualify him for rattlesnake comparisons. Since I did not say you ARE a rattlesnake, I don’t feel I’m owing an apology. However, if that is the way Peter interprets my remarks and he truly had no inkling of his homosexuality, I will gladly offer one to him.

I also said “I am one of those who BELIEVES you are born gay.” I didn’t say I am all knowing and judge myself to be supremely right. In order for me to pose my position on why he may not have room to judge, I needed to share my belief. Many of my gay friends make a point of explaining to me how much their homosexuality has been a part of their lives. They ‘always’ knew. It wasn’t a choice, etc. Cite whatever references you choose. I am strictly basing my OPINION off of what my friends have asked me to accept. I have had an aunt and a friend who found out they had married gay men. Coincidentally both were police officers. My uncle divorced my aunt and came out of the closet when he retired. He didn’t have to worry about career consequences to being gay anymore. Messed my aunt up right good. So much of their marriage had been a lie. My friend found her husband with another man. Shed a lot of light on why the bedroom in their home was mostly for sleeping. None of us here know Peter and none of us here have clue one how long he has known about his sexuality. I am simply saying IF indeed he did hide that truth from his bride, he doesn’t have a lot of room to throw arrows about any truths she may have been hiding.

I’m pretty sure I’m being fair.

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At 5:59 PM, Peter The Fruit said…

First, I apologize if any of my comments offended. I’ll keep it clean. If I blow it, remind me.

Second, Lisa, I don’t think you’ve been paying attention, nor do I think you’ve read all of my comments. I assume that’s the problem, as opposed to the idea that you simply have a block-head and don’t listen like most women. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and ask you to read ALL of my comments before passing judgement. If I sound angry, I’m not. So, please re-read and then offer an opinion.

I have many, many gay friends, and believe me, the issue of whether or not you are born gay is a hot topic in the gay community. The lines are frequently and sharply drawn between the two camps. I guess I’m so secure in myself that I feel no need to be defensive about my status. I am what I am and that’s that. I’ve read the studies that claim you are born gay, and while I’m no scientist, I have to say that I think the approach is just dishonest. The attempt by such researchers is to defend a foregone conclusion, not to research the issue impartially. They went looking for evidence to justify the claim that one is born gay, and that is simply not honest. People being what they are, they can tend to lie to themselves, not to mention other’s. So, let’s be realistic. And honest. I have had this same discussion with other gay’s many times, and have lost a few friends over it. It amazes me how so many people in the liberal camp have such closed minds and refuse to entertain any other ideas than their own. (Yeah, I’m a conservative gay.)

If my former wife hadn’t been so terrible a human being, I would still be married and still be straight. I didn’t desire men before I was married, and not during marraige. My desire for women was killed during marriage, but no desire for men, or more specifically one man in particular, developed until after my wife and I divorced. I tried dating after the divorce, but by then my senses had so sharpened that I saw through all of the acting on the part of women. It dawned on me that they were all the same. All corrupt liars.

We DO live in a matriarchy, as pointed out by other men here. Women are aggressive and masculine. Maybe I just don’t have enough testosterone, but when I’ve dealt with women, I’ve found their pushy masculinity a turn-off. Many straight men feel the same way. Have you heard of the marriage strike?

When I married, I had hopes of having a pleasant wife, and several children. I didn’t secretly look at gay porn, and I wasn’t eye-balling male children. I was totally straight. To my knowledge, there were no hidden gay desires on my part. Human nature being what it is, the desire to bond with another human is one of the strongest desires we have. With women, this is becoming impossible. Who wants to sleep with a rattlesnake? Who’s that desperate?

You say that one can’t turn gay after abuse by the opposite sex? Really? I disagree, as does my partner. So do many gays AND lesbians that I know. Are you arguing from a position of experience? On what do you base your experiences? Have you ever slept with a woman? Had any sexual desires for a woman? No? Then, on what do you base your beliefs?

I will say it loud and clear for all to hear:

Homosexuality is NOT the optimal solution for society, even though I believe everyone has the potential within them. An escape hatch, I guess. (The bisexual continuum theory.)

Ideally, we would all be involved in heterosexual relationships, and breeding. Society would best be served by this. I know this, but women have made such “normal” relationships increasingly difficult if not impossible.

I admire you for not being a gold-digger and demanding a costly wedding. Okay, there is one woman in thousand who feels that way, and you are one of them. I’m willing to give the devil her due.

Lisa, you believe that men are born gay because it relieves women of any responsibility for their horrible actions. You toot your own horn about an inexpensive wedding, but I’m afraid you show your true colors. It’s much easier TO BLAME MEN FOR EVERYTHING THAT GOES WRONG, than to admit that YOU, and ALL women, are the problem. Your hostility shows through. You take the same approach that feminist and Christian women take. Everything is the fault of MEN. In this, you are all united against men.

You are part of the matriarchy, and you are the cause of the destruction of this land.

I never set out to be gay. I wanted to be married. WOMEN made that impossible.

Peter The Increasingly Irritated Fruit

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At 6:44 PM, mfsob said…

Just out of curiosity, Lisa – were you born a vicious, lazy, back-biting, hysterical, shrewish bitch, or did you have to work at it?

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At 7:02 PM, Anonymous said…

Peter,

Don’t become an irritated fruit! You ARE right that people either believe the “born with it” or “changed” argument with nothing in between. Human beings are far more dynamic than that. I believe both answers can be true depending on the individual.

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At 7:30 PM, Lisa said…

Peter the Fruit, I did not limit my belief one is born gay to men. I’m not coveting a belief to protect me from having to admit women have turned men to other men. I honestly believe my gay women friends were also born this way. It is in their biology. Do some develop a distaste of the opposite sex as a result of abuse, sure. I accept that as a distinct possibility. I have a female friend who was assaulted who has no interest in having a sexual relationship with a man. I did do as you asked and re-read your posts. I see where you do not subscribe to the concept one is born gay, but I don’t really see is spelled out clearly when you started feeling gay. Your relationship with your wife sounds horrible. Based on your description of events, it is best it is in your past. Certainly you know there are gay men who marry straight women in the hopes of subscribing to a nuclear lifestyle…nuclear family. When that happens, it is just as much of a deception as some of the actions women pull against men. True? Fair? I think so.

As for MFSOB’s question…Just out of curiosity, Lisa – were you born a vicious, lazy, back-biting, hysterical, shrewish bitch, or did you have to work at it? I don’t believe I’ve behaved this way at all. Your need to be dramatic makes me wonder if you aren’t the male version of Sue. I do sympathize, as I’ve shared in a few comments on various posts here, with the garbage men have to deal with. Nothing anyone writes or says is true all of the time though. I think it’s healthy to insert reminders of that from time to time. That’s not discrediting anything or anyone, it’s just being objective. To answer your question though, I do bite my husband’s back from time to time. He always acts as if he likes it though.

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At 8:02 PM, Anonymous said…

Peter isn’t the first man to realize being with women sucks.

Remember Richard the Lionheart? He didn’t want to force his troops to join the Crusades. Instead, he sent out a request for volunteers. One million men signed up. Mainly because they were frustrated with home life and preferred adventure.

They were ready to give their lives to an impossibly difficult cause VOLUNTARILY – simply to avoid being at home with the old shrew.

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At 8:39 PM, Peter said…

For the record, I can’t imagine anything lower than marrying a woman knowing ahead of time that I was gay, or a woman marrying a man with the same knowledge. That is unforgivable to me. If you have desires in that area, share them with your prospective spouse, and discuss the implications. Full disclosure is necessary.

That was not the case with me. My wife’s cruelty destroyed any desire I had for women. I don’t like blaming other people for my actions, but in this case, men have a legitimate complaint.

My wife criticized everything about me. She made more money than I did. She had far more college education. She should have married that doctor she dated before she met me, she reminded me repeatedly. I was lousy in bed. I was too tidy around the house. I showered twice a day. She didn’t like my all-natural deodorant. She was a vegetarian, and I dared to eat meat. I went hunting with friends. I had the gall to have her arrested for domestic violence not once but twice. I dared to scream in pain when she slugged me in the groin. I had female friends. I wore my hair too long, and then too short. If I cleared my throat, she demanded I suck on a cough drop. If we were watching a movie, she would get mad if I wasn’t constantly talking to entertain her. She was mad that I didn’t want to dance, then when I took lessons and did take her dancing, I was lousy at that. When I would take walks to clear my head, she would yell at me when I came back for withdrawing. She cut off all of my friends, male and female, and then complained that I was anti-social. I bought new bicycles for both of us so we could do something together, and she complained that she didn’t like riding- after I bought them. Then she gave me hell when I wanted to ride anyway. I collected hand-carved elephants from around the world, and would polish them frequently. They were beautiful. She boxed them up one day and gave them to Goodwill. Her PMS and associated anger lasted two to three weeks every month, and during this time she was really violent. The little sex we had early on had to fall into a narrow window of time, and then she told me how unsatisfied she was. How lousy a lover I was. How my penis was not long enough or fat enough. How she had had better. If I dared to even put my arm around her at other times of the month, she would violently shove me away and say “KEEP YOUR DAMNED HANDS OFF OF ME!” One Christmas, I bought her three expensive Hummel figurines. I had to search to get the exact ones she wanted. She collects them. One day she got mad, and threw them at me, destroying them. Over a thousand dollars down the toilet. I can’t remember the number of dinner plates she smashed by throwing them at me or on the floor. I bought a new refrigerator that she had her eye on, and she was angry one day, and when the door was open, she slammed it closed. I said “Please don’t do that, you’ll wreck it!” She opened the door, and slammed it again, damaging the hinges. She went through my wardrobe, and threw out most of my clothes without my permission. She didn’t like them. She sold me gun because she didn’t believe in guns. She cut me off from all relatives, distant or otherwise. She actually wouldn’t allow me to speak to them. The same for my friends. One night she literally kicked me out of bed onto the floor. I have been back-handed, slapped, kicked, punched dozens of times. I have been hit by more flying debris than a tornado could generate. I have been back-stabbed by her to everyone we knew. I never understood at first why so many of OUR friends (mine were gone) gave me so many weird looks and avoided me. She told them I was assaulting her. I never once lifted a finger to even defend myself.

I could go on for hours listing the things she did. Am I saying I’m perfect? No I’m not. But I am a nice person and I never did anything cruel to her. I just wanted to be in love with the woman I thought I married. Nothing more. I wish I could take the blame. It would be easier.

When it was finally over, I was ruined emotionally. I had no self-confidence and no self-esteem. I was ready to die, and wanted to. I had given up on life, people and myself. I dated a number of women after my divorce, and found them to be cut of the same cloth as my former wife. Cruel, sadistic, dishonest. If I hadn’t met Leonard, I would have possibly ended my life.

I ask for no sympathy, and certainly none from YOU, Lisa. You are part of the problem. You’re just one of three billion members of the goon squad sent by the devil to ruin men.

I was warned against marriage by many guys, and chose to ignore their warnings.

I’m a lot wiser now, so please don’t try and portray yourself as a kind, caring woman. You only lie to yourself, as well as the rest of us. You have a cruel, black heart, and your thinly veiled attempt to portray yourself in a positive light is transparent to me.

I’m sorry I’ve lost my temper, but women like yourself infuriate me. You hide your true colors until it’s too late, then strike with the same venom as any other woman.

You are a true rattlesnake, and devoid of any goodness.

I am through with you.

Peter

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At 9:51 PM, Lisa said…

Duncan, I don’t intend to distract from the initial point of this post by debating whether or not women make men gay. I actually did not mean to stray from the original topic. I just kind of happened. The comments here are the first time I’ve heard the suggestion made with all seriousness that a person can turn another gay. I’m curious if you’ve ever written on the subject before. Is there another post I could read through in your archives along these lines? If you haven’t covered the topic, I’d be curious to hear your take and what you come up with. At the moment, I’m still of the school of thought sexuality is a biological, hormonal, cellular thing. Not opposed to hearing more on this from the male perspective.

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At 10:37 PM, Anonymous said…

Lisa

I didn’t need to get married for financial purposes. I wanted to get married because I found someone I felt I could enjoy a long term partnership with.

What about LOVE?

you dont mention Love anywhere – Maybe Peter is correct – maybe women cant Love?

Lets compare Male love songs with Female love songs

One by u2

“Love is a temple
Love a higher law”

Sarah by the girls in Fleetwood Mac

“Sarah when you build your house…then Call me”

Sorry by Madonna

“Don’t explain yourself ’cause talk is cheap
There’s more important things than hearing you speak”

I could go on and on with examples

Max – Sydney

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At 11:37 PM, Anonymous said…

There is a theological basis in the “women can’t love” argument. A woman will love her birth family, and later her children, but will NEVER truly love her husband.

This is why in the Bible, men are commanded to love their wives and keep them. Women are only instructed to be good wives and bear children, not to love. Both men and women are creatures with souls, but the mating dynamic is volatile and often antagonistic. When modern culture decided to pit women against men, it upset the traditional (and fragile) truce between the sexes which perpetuates marriage and community.

In other words, women fucked things up and they are only beginning to realize what they have done.

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At 12:55 AM, Lisa said…

Lisa

I didn’t need to get married for financial purposes. I wanted to get married because I found someone I felt I could enjoy a long term partnership with.

What about LOVE?

you dont mention Love anywhere – Maybe Peter is correct – maybe women cant Love?

Actually Max, I shared my love for my husband here on another post a few days ago.

All of the name calling and descriptions of my cruel black heart is unfortunate. I’m really not on the other side of this issue. There seems to be a huge effort to bait me into some sort of emotional fit and plant me on the other side. Perhaps the women in your lives taught some of you that behavior. I am sorry for that. It is a feminine thing to do. It’s just as unappealing when men pull that garbage.

Peter, whether you want my sympathy or not, I do feel sorry that your marriage was such a mess. I don’t have any desire to defend any of her behavior. I guess I can’t blame you if you put her face on all women, even if all women aren’t to that extreme. If you see her face when reading my words, so be it. I am not evil though. Choose to believe what you wish. I do appreciate your acknowledgment of how wrong it is for gay individuals to purposely marry a member of the opposite sex to perpetuate a lie. The spouse in that circumstance is filled with anger and hurt for justifiable reasons. If someone deceives another in that way, I don’t believe they have room to be too critical of others who have behaved in a similar fashion.

By the way, in my 35 years on this planet I have only been called a Bitch once in real life. It was by a woman I fired for stealing. I’m giggling a bit at posts where I’ve been referenced as a shrill bitch and such. I’m not sure anyone could say that to my face without busting out laughing in real life. I’m a Midwestern farm girl who really is pretty boring, down to earth and even tempered. I cook my husband’s meals, make homemade baby food for my daughter, wear the same clothes I’ve owned for years, etc. A lot of these qualities are the very reason I’m don’t make friends with the types of women often described here. Whether anyone believes me is of no consequence. Just interesting to me.

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At 1:10 AM, Peter said…

I’m sorry I blew up, guys. Only a woman has the ability to cause me to get upset anymore, which is why I avoid them.

Peter

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At 6:39 PM, Lisa said…

Peter, the truth of the matter is men and women are equal in the capability to be mean, dishonest, deceitful, violent, selfish, unloving, etc. They are both human and the fact of the matter is, there are men who are losers and women who are losers. On the flip side, there are men who are winners and women who are winners. Where the inequality lies is in the punishment handed out, the consequences endured and the resources available. Men do receive harsher penalties for identical behavior. Men do suffer greater consequences when marriages fail. Men do have fewer resources or options for recourse when a woman is in the wrong against them.

If you disagree with what I’ve just said, or can find a less than appealing name to call me for having the nerve to be logical and without drama, well I guess there isn’t much more I can do.

By the by, a few of my gay friends have found themselves in abusive relationships or have had to deal with an unfaithful mate. One also had his significant other run up his credit cards and steal from him. They had an even harder time getting justice. They were discriminated against even more. This is in the States. I know other countries do a better job. There is no Utopia. You can argue the ‘all women are evil’ and ‘all men are saints’ stance until you are blue in the face. It doesn’t make it true.

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At 8:12 PM, Anonymous said…

Peter the Fruit:

You were born gay. How do I know? It is not your life expereinces that matter, it is not knowing your own life that matters, it is not about you’re being honest with yourself and with the changes you felt within yourself.

It is much more simple than all that, Peter

Lisa said so! Besides she has gay friends so that makes her an expert on YOUR life! And to top it all off she has a copy of “Men are Born Gay for Dummies” book!

lol … just kidding!

On a more serious note, I just wanted to say, “WELCOME” to “The Eternal Bachelor”. I think you have a great deal of courage to: stand up for yourself, to share your experiences here and to help warn and defend other men. I would like to “thank-you”, for this and please, keep up the good fight against feminism.

Personally see you as another type of MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way). I think your choice illustrates another path some men are opting to take. MGTOW is certainly snowballing – from entire nations which have run out of sperm donors (aka: future ATMs) thru to the empty wedding chapels and men choosing to expat – men are avoiding women like the plague!

I have a saying in life, “turn a negative into a positive”. Peter, this is what you have done in your life. Despite the terrible forms of abuse you endured with your wife you managed to overcome this with Leonard there by your side. You have BOTH turned a negative situation into a positive one and I am very glad that you have found someone to share your life with.

By the way Peter, if it is ok and doesn’t cause you too much pain, please tell other men here the things which your “wife” did to you. I think, it is time men spoke up as to the forms of abuse they have been forced to keep hidden for so long. Perhaps your courage, openness and honesty will inspire other men to speak up.

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At 8:41 PM, Peter said…

Lisa, first, I apologize for calling names. It’s rude, undignified and unwarranted, not to mention childish of me. It’s also cowardly to call someone names you wouldn’t dream of if you met them in person. The temptation on the internet is to act like an ass, and I’m as guilty as many others.

But Lisa, I think you are reading more into my remarks than is warranted. I don’t think men are saints. I know several gay men who have been RAPED by their partners. I know many men, regardless of their sexuality, that are lower than a snake full of buckshot. I do NOT TRUST the vast majority of people, regardless of gender. If I was a woman, I would be scared to death of the dating/marriage scene. I’m not without empathy.

But, my experiences with women have been awful from my childhood. I’ve read some of Dworkin’s books, and she rants and raves like a lunatic. But, in all fairness, she, like so many uber-feminists, have suffered at the hands of cruel men. So, I know it goes both ways. Treatment by the opposite gender CAN influence much in your life.

I do think that women are incapable of genuine long-lasting love and loyalty – WHEN IT COMES TO MEN. Whether or not men should be angry with this aspect of their nature, or just recognize the truth of it and work around it, I don’t know. It proved to be too much for me. If I could do it all over and remain celibate instead of adopting the gay lifestyle, I would have done so. I may yet. I was raised in a fairly non-religious Jewish home, but my gayness still bothers me from time to time. Some days, like today, it just doesn’t feel right. Some times, I watch TBN, and listen to the Christian preachers, and I get really upset. So, I turn them off and go running or biking. Anything to get my mind off things.

Just blowing off steam today. Again, sorry for my rudeness, but you ARE a woman, and you sound so like my former wife. I married her because, honestly, I was weary of Jewish women and their hostility towards men. So often, Gentile men wonder why so many Jewish men are marrying outside of their faith, but I tell you, there is a reason. Jewish women are insufferable. My wife was Irish-Catholic, and seemed so traditional. She wasn’t.

I haven’t changed my beliefs about you in the sense that I think you would stab any man in the back if given the chance. It’s just your nature, and you probably can’t help it. But, I don’t like being rude even to my enemy.

Peter

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At 9:57 PM, Anonymous said…

Lisa said, “I do appreciate your acknowledgment of how wrong it is for gay individuals to purposely marry a member of the opposite sex to perpetuate a lie. The spouse in that circumstance is filled with anger and hurt for justifiable reasons. If someone deceives another in that way, I don’t believe they have room to be too critical of others who have behaved in a similar fashion”

1. Richard made it quite clear that he was HETRO-sexual before marriage and before the extreme abuse from his wife, and to a lesser extent, women after his marriage.

2. What makes you Lisa, an expert on Richard? Richard lived HIS life, he knows how he felt before his marriage, during and after.

3. It is not Richard who deceived his wife, rather, HIS WIFE WHOM DECEIVED RICHARD. Nice try at a reversal, Lisa. I am sure Richard thought the women he loved and married had similar feelings, could feel love, felt equal commitment and would work together as one. I am sure he could never have imagined in his wildest nightmares, just how abusive his “significant other” would become and just how ugly inside, the majority of women in his life turned out to be.

4. The victim here is not Richard’s abusive wife, but Richard. Again, attempts at reversing the situation and putting the blame on the man. Richard become homosexual due to THE CONSTANT ABUSE OF HIS WIFE. He should be both supported by others and given a pat of the back for having the guts to stand up for the rights of other men. Bravo Richard – don’t stop fighting!

5. Isn’t it ironic that women can kill babies without a second thought (oops, I mean coldly abort a fetus even if the father wishes to keep him or her), destroy a man and leave him destitute through spousal and child support all the while TWISTING THE FACTS TO SUPPORT THEIR VIEWS, change their feeeeeelings every 5 seconds —- BUT — good God should a man change due all this, it’s ALL his fault. All this “perpetuate” crap in the above, Lisa, is just a SHAMING attempt on a man that overcome the odds. Many men never never heal after years of ABUSE BY WOMEN…many men become depressive and reclusive and many commit suicide.

6. Quite honestly, I find Lisa’s attack on Richard quite distasteful. She’s not much better than Sue, IMO.

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At 11:39 PM, khankrumthebulgar said…

The fundamental change that I have noticed in my lifetime. I am 50 years of age. Is the shift of who is cheating regarding the genders. Growing up as a young Boy, it was males. As an Adult Male, the majority of the Men I have met here in the Southwest and in California. It is the Women who are cheating. When Men cheat they feel guilty. When Women cheat they feel entitled.

Old Man rationalization is the best Friend of American Women. Put there by Dr. Phil, Oprah, Phil Donohue etc. The apologists for Female Irresponsibility and entitlement. Who suffers the most? Children of course who grow up without their Biological Father. And who grow up without Dad’s protection from physical and sexual abuse.

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At 11:59 PM, Anonymous said…

Mate, I love your site, and I’m right there with you as regards the Men’s Movement, but it’s not helping our cause when you’re out there using phrases like ‘spaz baby’.

Peace,
Bryan
super_badd@hotmail.com

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At 12:00 AM, Anonymous said…

One lesson I’ve learned.

Women ARE hardwired to dissemble.

They can run circles around men and change faces, moods, and tactics with the rapidity of a machine gun.

I guess it is a survival mechanism that nature gave them. Men are physically stronger than women, but that can be canceled out if men’s heads are spinning like tops from all the illusions, double-talk, and emotionally-based attacks that women can fire away.

I’ve usually found it to be a complete waste of time to engage the female creature in honest dialog (i.e., anything you say to them can and will be used against you by them).

Avoiding women is FAR easier and takes less energy than arguing with a woman.

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At 12:48 AM, Peter said…

By “Richard”, I assume you are referring to me, Peter.

Let me tell you guys something. It took an immense amount of emotional trauma on the part of a woman, indeed all women, to cause me to lose all sexual desire for women. I have always had a strong drive directed towards women. My former wife murdered that desire. I realize it’s a mental/emotional thing, but when I look at attractive women, or worse yet view them in various states of undress in films, I become physically ill. I get nervous and my heart races when near them. I have to keep as far from them as possible. When you have been physically abused to the degree I was, it’s a normal reaction to a very abnormal situation. I avoid turning my back to any woman, as I have a fear that I will get hit from behind again. Time has not healed this wound. The thought of being physically intimate with a woman terrifies and nauseates me.

How I ended up being gay is, I suppose, just a result of pure luck, good or bad, for lack of a better word. I met someone who went through his own personal hell, and things happened. I don’t try and sell the gay lifestyle. It’s filled with difficulties, and most of the gay men I know have STD’s. So, I don’t recommend it. It’s a difficult path to tread, and filled with danger. Celibacy is the wiser and safer choice if you can make it. I did what I did, and I’m involved in a relationship that provides, for the most part, a lot of happiness and comfort for both of us.

It wouldn’t have been my first choice. I wanted to be married to a woman and have kids. This was always my goal deep down inside. My wife robbed me of my dreams and hopes, and crushed the hell out of me. What she did was unforgivable, but I try in my heart to forgive, if for no other reason than to keep my heart free of hatred.

I’m not a very good Jew, but I don’t want to hate. Of all people, I should realize the consequences of hatred, and I apologize again if I have come across this way. As a Jew, I feel a responsibility to live a decent life for the benefit of others. In this, I think I have failed far more than I have succeeded. This causes me grief, as I have no desire to hurt anyone by my actions or words or poor example. I haven’t been to Synagogue for more years than I can remember, but still, a part of me feels a responsibility to “be a light to the world”, even though I really don’t understand it. I have a responsibility to other’s, but what kind of piss-poor example am I? Introspection is NOT always pleasant.

Sadly, when we are hurt- really hurt by others, it’s almost instinctive to hate in return. While I have never been a hateful person, my actions and thoughts have not always been pure. Sometimes, in my weak moments, my thoughts towards my former wife have been very bad.

I’ll stop now. I don’t want you thinking I’m starting a pity-fest. I think my comments can help men to understand the dynamics of any relationship with a woman, and to see into my heart and maybe get a glimpse of just how devastating a woman can be in your life. Not every man will be damaged to the degree I was, but EVERY man could be the minute he gets married. The moment you wed, you have given a woman the power to destroy your life. In good conscience, I can’t recommend this. G-d didn’t intend this to happen.

Stay single, stay celibate.

Peter aka “Richard”, apparently

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At 1:07 AM, Peter said…

Hey, Anon 8:12, thanks for your kind words. They helped today.

Peter

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At 2:03 AM, Anonymous said…

Peter,

Don’t feel any pain over anything you’ve said here. I’m also a Jew coming from a bad marriage. It is hard to reconcile how we feel with what we are supposed to be. I think it would be better if we spoke about what we are and our beliefs more often.

Your last post literally brought tears to my eyes. I haven’t been to Temple in about two years and have no intention of going back. Jewish women are horribly difficult, but Christian women aren’t much better. I support you in your efforts to simply be a good person and show love to others. If you can’t be a light to all people, you can at least be a mensch (good human being) to everyone you meet.

I apologize for all the emotional stuff. We Jews are commanded to be a “light” to others; to live right and do right no matter what. In other words, our belief system makes impossible demands – just like all the other religions. What is important is to add your light to the sum of light, to be with people and interact with them. Show love no matter what happens. Resist evil, but don’t isolate to avoid it.

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At 2:24 AM, Anonymous said…

Peter: ” Hey, Anon 8:12, thanks for your kind words. They helped today.”

Glad they were of some help to you Peter.

Incidentally, sorry about my second post. I was rushing a few projects here and was thinking about my brother “Richard” while writing that message for you. Sorry about that Peter, I meant no disrespect. I normally proof my posts carefully, but I really wanted to get that post up quickly as possible, as Lisa’s comments to you were really pis*ing me off.

A few notes:

Peter: “a part of me feels a responsibility to “be a light to the world”, even though I really don’t understand it. I have a responsibility to other’s, but what kind of piss-poor example am I?”

Peter, allot of people do not have the ethics or courage to even ATTEMPT to make the world a better place. You’re trying even after everything you have been through and that says allot about you. Introspection is good….but…taken to excess it can be harmful. It is all to easy for good men to blame themselves for everything, to become too critical of themselves. Balance is the key. Lighten up Peter, also focus on the good, the positive, the progress and the knowledge you have gained thus far. Also take time to set the GOALS and DIRECTION in life you want – be everything you can be!

I admire the fact that after all the abuse you endured, you have the courage to stand up for the rights of other men.

“My wife robbed me of my dreams and hopes, and crushed the hell out of me.”

Maybe, she “crushed the hell out of you”, but hey, now we have a diamond! Peter, you’re much stronger than you were before, much more aware, and much more experienced. How is your wife doing? – I bet she used you to avoid confronting the truth of whom she is. You’re growing quickly as a person, I bet she’s some bitter women who blames everything negative in her life on others. Your ex-wife couldn’t rob you of your core essence Peter, in fact, your probably becoming a better and stronger person than she dared even dream.

Peter, make it your goal in life, to be everything you can be, to enjoy life to it’s fullest and to help other men ….let that be your revenge to her.

“I become physically ill. I get nervous and my heart races when near them”

Try some “hypnotherapy” (guided imagery). There are ways to resolve this, yet, retain your experience. Basically you can let go of the negative aspects of past situations and hold onto the positives. It is beyond the scope of this forum, I wish I could write more to you about this. Please, consider looking into this.

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At 8:01 AM, Anonymous said…

Peter,

I find your experiences very eloquent. I am not gay nor will I ever be. But I certainly understand where you’re coming from. Growing up, my mother destroyed my concept of who I was using threats, criticism and anger to offload her lousy attitude onto me and my stepdad.

I don’t blame all women for what I went through, but having gone through what I did, I’ve seen firsthand what ‘family hell’ is really like. And I’ve also seen the destruction one sociopathic individual can wreak on the lives of others.

I don’t blame you for not wanting to ever go through what you did. It took me many years to get over the abuse I suffered (no longer, she’s on notice that she’ll lose THIS relative if she goes back to the old ways of doing things. And I’ve backed this up with my actions) so in a different situation, have experienced the evil that a woman can bring into a life.

Best wishes.

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At 8:12 PM, Lisa said…

Evil comes from all directions gentlemen. I’m not trying to minimize your experiences in the least. I’m also not trying to defend the women in your life who have harmed you. Peter, I understand so much of what you are saying in terms of your response to abuse. It is my personal belief most people (male and female)will experience some sort of abuse in their lifetime, whether as a child or as an adult. This is a mean world we live in and it doesn’t seem to be getting any better.

My turn in the victim’s seat came when I was 15 years old at the hands of a 60 something year old man in a cardigan. 20 years later, I still feel the impact of those encounters. I’m sure my husband does too, at times. He understands I don’t always feel I can trust and we work through it. I still give a second glance to any cardigan wearing gray haired man who passes me on the street. I have come to accept and understand that those who have external qualities similar to the person who so negatively impacted my life doesn’t mean they have the same internal qualities. I needed to do that for my own sanity. If we all saw our attackers in the faces and words of everyone we encountered who resembled that person in any way, we’d all be paralyzed.

For those of you who are ‘pissed’ by my words, I don’t know what to say. It’s a mystery to me. I don’t swear, I’m free from drama and I think I’m being pretty consistent and rational. The only things I have DARED to do is point out when people were responding with name calling and drama versus dialogue and question Peter the Fruit (there are 2 Peters here) as to whether or not he had portrayed his true self to his wife prior to marriage. I have not questioned anyone’s intelligence (as mine has been questioned), I have not dubbed anyone evil, cruel or cold (as I have been dubbed), I have not matched any references to being called a bitch with an equally distasteful name. I have not said men are ‘all’ this or that. I have acknowledged many of the challenges men face though few seem willing to agree women have challenges as well. If my words are pissing you off, I imagine the words of feminists must send you into a murderous rage.

By the by, I am not a child killer. I have not had a hanger between my legs. I have given life to a beautiful little girl and hope to do so again soon.

Also, Peter, I’m not your wife. I don’t swear, I don’t drink, I don’t stomp or slams doors, I don’t hit, I eat steak and I’d rather have a stomach virus than a Hummel.

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At 8:14 PM, Peter said…

Thank you fine men for you words to me. All of you. It’s hard to address individuals since most who post here don’t use names. I wish we all would. We can’t all be “anonymous”. Could we do this? Could we all take the time to find a name and use it consistently? It doesn’t have to be your actual name, but it would help me so much if I could relate to someone on a more personal level.

As a Jew, and one who knows next to nothing about his own faith, I feel a collective guilt over our failure to be “a light to the world”. Most of the feminist leaders who have destroyed marriage are Jewish. As Jewish men, we failed to control our women with horrible results for society. Even though I could argue that I am not personally responsible for what has happened, am I not? What have I done to help matters? Rather than try and correct the problem with Judaism, I ran outside and married someone who didn’t share my beliefs, and certainly didn’t honor her own. If she had been a “good Christian”, and I had been a “good Jew”, we might have made it.

When that didn’t work out, I adopted the gay lifestyle. More running. So, the problem for Jews is one of almost constant guilt and regret. Sadness over what the world has done to us, and regret over what we have done to the world. As I sit here looking back over my life, I know I will have to give an accounting to G-d someday. What will I say? I failed at marriage and became a sodomite? I dread that day.

Please don’t think less of me for what I’m saying. As Jews, it’s built into us to examine ourselves, even lousy Jews like myself. Even when we try and deny G-d, there is something in the back of our minds reminding us that we have a special responsibility to G-d and our fellow human beings. Like Jonah, one can only run so far. I think I have reached that point in my life. A day of reckoning. A turning point.

Anon 8;12, don’t worry about calling me “Richard”. It’s a nice name, and it’s certainly better than some of the things my former wife called me. It never felt right having a Gentile wife calling me a Schmuck. Bastard and SOB I can live with…..Schmuck may have been accurate, but it didn’t seem quite right. But, I got used to it, and for a couple of years, she would tell her friends that she was married to “that Schmuck”, or that “damned Schmuck”. I’m not sure, but I don’t think she felt any love for me when she said that. Oy.

As to how she’s doing, I don’t really know for sure. We haven’t spoken in some time. I heard she finally got engaged to a physician. A cardiologist, I think, but I don’t know. I think he’s Catholic. I wish her well. Maybe she will find her happiness now that she has a man that can support her in the style she feels she deserves. I think she married me because she believed the stereotype that all Jewish men are professionals. Doctors. Lawyers. Real Estate moguls. Movie producers. In this I failed her. I dropped out of college after one year, and I have never really made something of myself.

You are a very kind group of men, and I appreciate what you have done for me, and I would like to offer at least something in return. At this point it would be the only thing I really have to offer, and it’s this: Humble advice. Avoid women at all costs. We are living in a time when women have sunk to an unbelievable low, and they haven’t hit bottom yet. I have always felt that abortion was murder of the worst kind; in this I think I am unique. The child is alive at conception. That’s it. It’s a human life the moment G-d breathes life into it to start it on the path to humanity. Yet, almost all women delight in killing their babies. However I have sinned against G-d for my failure in marriage and my homosexuality, I am adamant in my condemnation of the murder of children. In this, the Jewish people have failed. We, of all people, understand the meaning of the word “holocaust”, yet most of us support the worst holocaust in the history of the world. The murder of countless children. I fear the judgment of G-d, and know it is well deserved, both for myself and my people. The Christians are not free of sin, either, because so many of them have sat by and said nothing while this has taken place. We all claim to be representatives of G-d on earth, but oh how we have all failed.

Enough of this. Sometimes it’s better to put it into print rather than have people look at me funny when I talk to myself.

Peter

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At 10:26 PM, Peter said…

Please let me politely put it this way, Lisa. I wish you no ill, and I’m truly sorry if you were ever abused by any man anywhere. I can’t imagine how any person could hurt a child. I am a guest here, and would never presume to offer an opinion as to who should or not be here. I am honored that Duncan allowed me to stay in light of my present lifestyle, which I know is offensive to so many men. Also, the other men have graciously welcomed me in spite of such differences between us. With that said, and with due respect to the other men here, I would rather not exchange any comments with you. You are free, of course, to converse with the other men here. That is not my business.

I wish you well, and would just prefer to avoid discussing anything with you in the future. There is no point.

Peter

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At 11:49 PM, Lisa said…

Very well Peter. Very well. Now I must go pop a chocolate to fill the void of the cyber friendship that, alas, never will be.

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